[iwerk2hard]

I stand corrected, I missed a word. Water vapor is the THIRD most abundant gas in our atmosphere. That's a considerable amount of water passing through our internal combustion engines. A miniscule amount, in solution, in fuel isn't anything to worry about. It's when it isn't in solution that problems occur.

[Oldtimer]

.

Hello gwehe amd hmx91213, feel free to disagree.

Okay. Isopropanol is an alchohol, what's the problem? None that I can see. Except it costs as much as Gasoline.

The point about the surface tension is the biggest thing to  consider here with any fuel additive of Alchohol or Acetone and Naptha's. The raised vapor point increases your effective compression, the lowered "octane" rating or specific heat value is then offset by the increased burn rate.

Does that make sense alright?

Plus consider that all vehicles made since the late seventies have rubber fuel lines impervious to alchohol and butanol additives. They won't leach and they won't dry in these conditions. Plus these additives are sometimes the same components of Fuel Injector cleaner made by people like STP. Not such a concern really. I'd rather have the Isopropanol in a Diesel to collect the water in the tank, but it would do the same for gasoline too. Who wants their tank to rust out, or their fuel to freeze? Either can happen in some areas.

If you think that idea was odd consider this one. Drop two Napthalene mothballs in your motorcycle tank at fillup and notice the power increase. I know why it works and how.

Think it over and you'll know why it does that now too..

Andy

[iwerk2hard]

OK, first result here. I mixed 3 ounces of acetone into a full tank of gasoline, (15 gallons). My typical mileage has been just above 23 1/2 MPG. Mileage from the tank before I used acetone was 23.84 MPG, mileage from the tank with acetone mixed in was 23.95. Such a slight difference could be caused by a number of things. I'll run a few more tanks with acetone mixed in and watch the mileage, but I really don't expect to see a significant difference in mileage or performance.
If anyone else tries this, please share your results.
Thanks.

[Dude]

Don't bother wasting your time.  Acetone won't give you improved fuel economy.  They don't have an army of PhD physicists, engineers and chemists at Shell, Exxon, Chevron and Valero for nothing.  If there was a "smoking gun" additive that significantly improved fuel economy, it would be part of a patented additive package.  There are hundreds of different chemicals in gasoline (see an Agilent chromatography catalog).  This idea falls into the "something for nothing" concept (winning a lottery, being a movie star etc) that so many Americans want and never get.

[Oldtimer]

.
Dude you raise some good points. Except those Dr.'s are concerned with the fuel being made in the refinery. What about after it has sat in one of those massive Tanks at a tank farm for months or years?
They make more than they will use for a short term, then they have a little extra if they need to do some work and shut down for a while. These tanks will draw moisture and stagnate the fuel a little.

It doesn't really help that much though and you're right. It would be much wiser to just buy HEET, Octane Booster, or Injector cleaner and use that instead simply from the standpoint of warrantee also.

We did some experiments with Water injection in College using a heated steam vapor injection system in an old 74 Toranado with a 455 in it. The mileage increased from 5% to 15% depending on how we drove it in the mountain area.

The addition of these types of additives would've helped it in that system. But any experimenting would be up to the person who owns the vehicle ultimately.

I've never gotten better mileage from any additive, but would get more power for minimal loss in economy. To raise the economy you would need to add more than 1 pint in 20+ gallons of fuel. The percentages of dilution are just too small otherwise.

Andy

[iwerk2hard]

I just filled up again. 350.2 miles, 14.80 gallons, 23.66 MPG.
That was the second tankfull I ran with 3 ounces of acetone mixed in. No difference at all in mileage, and if there was a difference in performance other than a reduction in "ping" I really didn't notice it. I'm certain that the acetone did no harm to any components of my engine or fuel delivery system. I still have the 2 pieces of hose submerged in acetone and they don't look or feel any different than they would if they were soaking in water. I guess my final word, based on my experience is this: It didn't help, it didn't hurt, but now I know from firsthand experience and I don't have to wonder.

[billnotgatez]

Just curious –

What was your source of acetone?

Do you think that a can of Drygas (isopropyl alcohol) at each refueling would have the same reduction of ping effect?

[iwerk2hard]

Sorry for the delay, bunch of stuff happening lately, haven't been on the computer much.

My acetone came from the paint/hardware department at K-Mart.

I don't have an opinion about alcohol and ping reduction, I guess I could give it a try. It certainly shouldn't hurt anything and it won't cost much to find out.

[Miscdon]

The small amount of water in the acetone has no significance to the fuel will not put any rust in the engine. I used to have a '73 Charger with a 318 high performance engine. It got 9 mpg no matter how I drove it. Unless I was really rapping it. I installed a water vapor injection system on it (home made), and increased my mileage to 14 mpg and noticable increase in performance. The mileage still went away if I got into it. Water vapor has more power than the gasoline when it turns to steam. I did not use a pressure system like one of the previous postings however. On most vehicle, drivers will notice on a high humidity day an increase in performance as opposed to a hot dry day. When an engine is torn down after a vapor injection system is used for a while, the engine will be cleaner in the cylinders and around the valves, due to the high pressure steam washing action. I have used this on other various vehicles including an 82 Ford Courier where amongst other various things done to it, got the mileage up to 45 mpg. This was not every tank, but was up into the mid 30's repeatedly. It took alot of work to keep the high mileage. As for acetone and alchohol, I tried various mixtures with alchohol in both the vapor system and the fuel. Alchohol seemed to have no appreciable effect negative or possitive to the mileage. Acetone had a slight increase in mileage, but not any noticable increase in performance. It's kind of funny, but this is just coming out about acetone and I knew about this from experimenting back in the mid '70s. One thing that we used to do back then was to put a handful of moth balls in the tank at fill up. Most mothballs are made of naphthalene. They would dissolve in the fuel and increase the performance by up to about 10%. I WOULD NOT recommend putting mothballs in a fuel injection system. The have a REAL potential of messing up the injectors. Also too many will cause the fuel to burn too hot and put holes in your pistons not mention causing pinging if the timing is not altered. If you want an increase in mileage, nothing is free. You can experiment with the acetone, but keep the ratio low, because over time it will cause deterioration to many fuel lines with the addition of heat and pressure as opposed to just sitting in a can of gas/acetone mixture. People seem to forget about the heat developed from the vehicle and the high pressure in the fuel system. Your best bet is to put a good ignition system in along with a good water vapor injection system. There are plenty of them on the market. Buy a good set of Split Fire or similar plugs and not platinum. Platinum is good for heat but no good for hotter spark. The hotter the spark, the better the burn. Look at the top fuelers. You could almost weld with those ignition systems. Good Luck, DP

[Oldtimer]

It's a dry fuel. Burns completely. And is relatively cheap and abundant.

Sure the funny cars blowup after a few runs, but so do the Gas engined cars - it's the way they want them to run.

I think with a good turbo or supercharger they could run NitroMethane or NitroMethanol quite well.

Andy

[gw33gp]

Buy a good set of Split Fire or similar plugs and not platinum. Platinum is good for heat but no good for hotter spark. The hotter the spark, the better the burn. Look at the top fuelers. You could almost weld with those ignition systems. Good Luck, DP

Hotter spark plugs are not needed on normal street engines.  Hotter or higher energy spark plugs are needed on high performance engines because of the higher compression ratio.  A normal spark plug will have a hard time firing in an high compression engine.  Top fuelers are pumping so much fuel and air in the cylinder they almost need an arc welder to get the plugs to generate a spark.  If you use too high a heat range spark plug on a standard street engine, you can induce pre-ignition.  

[Miscdon]

A hotter spark can be used without causing spark knock. Only on one vehicle (street vehicle) have I ever had a problem with pre-ignition due to hotter ignition and that was solved by changing the timing slightly. Not enough to alter performance, but enough to stop the knock. If you have a newer engine with knock sensors the computer should alter the timing sufficiently to stop the knock. Water vapor acts similar to higher octane. It will slow the burn down like your EGR system does to help prevent pre-ignition. Steam has more power than gasoline, however under normal conditions, the energy to produce the amount of steam needed to push a piston is more than the gas being burnt in the cylinder. If a small amount of water is introduced with the burning fuel you can increase the efficiency of the fuel by using less fuel and a little steam to make up the difference. Too much water vapor and you will defeat the flammability of the fuel and cause a hydro lock like a previous posting stated. My point on the spark plugs was not to get a welding arc going, but to get a multiple spark. The point of this subject of acetone and gasoline was to get better burn from the fuel for better economy. A multi-spark will create a more efficient burn. With the exception of one vehicle, I had an increase of 3 to 7 mpg. I am not including the Ford Courier pickup, because it had many other alterations. There are many high-energy ignition coils that are sold freely for street engines. An advanced ignition module like MSD can give a multiple spark. Nissan uses multiple plugs on some of their engines (I don’t know why though, it never gave them an advantage, try running the engine without either one set of the plugs firing and see what happens). The bottom line: I tried acetone myself on several vehicles and the gain was not enough to justify the use of it and the potential deterioration of fuel lines over time even though acetone is cheap in comparison to the other things that can be done. That’s not to say that someone else won’t have better success than myself. Little things can be done to most street vehicles to gain some mileage. If you want to get the maximum efficiency from gasoline, your going to have to vaporize the fuel, store it in a holding tank on the car, and then feed it in through a propane regulator and carburetor. (Not a very safe way to get your maximum efficiency, but it can and has been done.) DP

[cataylman]

Actually to all:

The vapor/surface tension "thing" just doesn't hold up for about 12.5 reasons (basic, surfactant chemistry). :"They" had the same "discussion" back in the 80/90s when gas was expensive (supposedly) and catalytic converters and oxygen sensors were starting to come in to use.

FYI: The acetone is reacting with the catalyst used in the oxygen sensor making the mixture appear" too rich. As a result - the mixture is leaned out by the computer thus the mileage goes up.

The reason it does not work the same on all cars is that there are three different metals used as catalysts in O2 sensors: platinum palladium rhodium or in combination. Acetone in combination with NOx (and others) in the exhaust will react differently with each metal to either speed up or slow down the catalytic reaction of the oxygen senor. FYI, I am not talking about the catalytic converter - just to stop about 100 posts.

Question: am I the only one on the planet who remembers this?  There seems to be a lot of people skiing behind the "vaporization" boat?

The reason I know this is that I used to work for Exxon; and fyi, the reason they don't put acetone in gas is that it is hard to get it to stay there and second over time it reacts with different kinds of additives in fuel. Which is also a reason why it does not work on some cars - it's the gas not the car.

They have had additives in the past with acetone - old news. It is good that it works though! It simply had gotten more news because of the historic price of gas.

Also, this is why ASME standards for elastomers used in cars requires (heavily suggests) that all elastomers be tested with acetone - along with other (i.e . MTBE, M85 ...) Once again, very old (but good) news (remembrances)

[constant thinker]

That's pretty cool, and that is some good knowledge.

[flash]

My concern is the "wiping" effect of the acetone. being acetone is probably the best oil/grease remover, cleaning solvent available to the "consumer". This "wiping" effect may dry out bearing surfaces, like: cylinder walls, valve stems, etc. People used to try using #2 fuel oil in diesels engines to cut cost, only to be hit with a worn/burned out top ends of the engine, the cause: the diesel fuel has paraffin mixed in it, a wax to help lubricate the wear surfaces in this type of high compression engines.