[aveon blitz]

i have been tampering with a hydrogen on demand system that is sometimes refered to as hho, hydroxy, oxy-hydrogen, or brown's gas.
i am very interested in the possibilities of this system, but there is one question i need answered before i start installing these systems in the cars of friends families and paying customers.
is the baking soda used a an electrolyte reacting with the water or simply breaking down because of the ambiant electrical and heat energy in the unit?

my observations:
the water after being used in the unit for a while(not sure how long) becomes a color similar to bleach. this coloration continues into a deeper amber hue untill it actually turns into soemthing the consistantcy of rich chocolate milk.
when ever i take the cap off of the unit, a visible gas comes out of the top, so long as it is hit by the right light. it smells like a swamp in my opinion.
i know that the engine does run cooler and water and steem flow out of the tail pipe when the engine is reved.


reason for my concern:
with this HOD system, there is a possibility that you will rust out your engine because you are creating water in your combustion chamber. if the baking soda is reacting with the water, or ambiant hydrogen, if the mixture is spent(no more baking soda) it could rust out the engine much faster than a new mixture. if the level of baking soda has nothing to do with the amount of hydrogen released, teh system would need much less matinance and would only have to use distilled water instead of an electrolyte solution.

for now i am switch out teh miture for a new solution, but i would like this answered because even though the vehicle it is in right now is disposable, the unit works much better once the mixture has become brown.

i thank you for your time and thought, please forgive any spelling or gramatical errors.

[billnotgatez]

Some things you did not tell us that may help in answering --

What are your electrodes made of?

What is your water source (i.e. is it distilled water)?


==========

H₂0 + NaHCO₃ =

[aveon blitz]

the electrodes are stainless steel adn teh water is distilled mixed with a small amount of sodium bicarbonate

[billnotgatez]

Initially I thought you might have something in your system that added to the reaction. Iron electrode turning to rust or impurities in the water. If there were anything in the water that was acidic would react with the baking soda. Otherwise thick white stuff would have been baking soda in water in higher concentration. Now I am not sure.

[aveon blitz]

actually, the water after wards is a dark brown, similar in darkkness to when you put too much chocolate in chocolate milk.

[billnotgatez]

Similar to rust in water mixed with something white?

[billnotgatez]

I have no experience with electrodes made of stainless steel. Steel is made from iron with other elements in it. Could the electrodes be breaking down? I do not know.

I have had experience with iron oxide as 2 different forms where one has a darker coloration.

[aveon blitz]

stainless steel does not rust, although it could be attributed to a reaction with the sodium bicarbonate. i just confirmed that the material in the water is magnetic, this is upsetting because it means that stainless steel is rusting. i am not sure what this means for the efficentcy of the device but it does explain why the water becomes more conductive after two to three hours of running it.

thank you for your help.

[Mark Imisides]

Stainless steel only "does not rust" under normal atmospheric conditions.

It is a very poor electrode material due to its high resistivity (for a metal), and is seldom used as such.

Under the application of an EMF it most certainly will corrode - the anode will oxidise to Ferric ion and then:

Fe3+ + 3H2O = Fe(OH)3 + 3H+

or

2Fe3+ + 3H2O = Fe2O3 + 6H+

or there are probably several other options - ferric ion has several oxide/hydroxy forms.
So you are generating acid at your anode, and dissolving the anode at the same time. The bicarb will react with it, of course, generating CO2, and that may be some of the bubbles you're getting.

And speaking of bicarb, I can't imagine why you're using it as an electrolyte (the two are usually not mentioned in the same sentence) - it has very poor qualities in this context (solubility and ionic mobility). I can only suppose that you got the recipe from one of these water4fuel sites - you know, the ones that invent molecules like HHO and monatomic hydrogen (at STP).

Although you are to be congratulated on at least building your cell well enough to generate a reaction, which is more than most people would achieve without a knowledge of the many factors involved in electrodes and electrolytic cell design (that I won't go into), I'd suggest you abandon the idea - it won't work.

Cheers,
Mark

[billnotgatez]

Many people use carbon electrodes as found in batteries.

Some people use sodium hydroxide (lye) as a catalyst.