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Topic: Plastisol Paint materials help  (Read 15074 times)

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Offline Yannuit

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Plastisol Paint materials help
« on: October 23, 2008, 02:11:42 AM »
Ok hello, this is my first post. Nice to meet everyone.
I am an artist, not really much of a chemist, so if I sound like I dont know what I am talking about, it is because I really dont. I do, however want to know what I am talking about so I am hoping that maybe you all can help me with that.
I've always tried to learn as much as I can about the make-up of the materials I use in my painting and most of the paints I use I make myself. 
So anyway there is a type of paint called Genesis Heat Setting paint which I like alot. I have been buying the "thick medium" from the company that makes them and have just been mixing it with pigments to make paints. This has givn me good results so far but I have wanted to know how it is made and perhaps, if I could, learn to make it myself. So I searched up the patent number on the jar or thick medium I bought. Just to be sure, is it okay to put the patent number in this post? Just wanna make sure theres no problem with it.

In the patent it says that it is based on the same concept as Plastisol inks, which I read are basically PVC with plasticizer and pigment (is this correct?). The Genesis medium is not made with PVC but with polyalkylmethacrylate resin (hope thats right) and plasticizer, which gives a more buttery consistency than PVC.

As far as I can tell by reading the examples written about in the patent the paint is made by making two mixtures. The first is pigment mixed with diisononyl phthalate plasticizer or Kodak dioctyl phthalate plasticizer. The second is what they call Rohm Tech M914 which is a acrylic polymer based on polymethacrylate or Rohm Tech 4899F which is an acrylic copolymer based on methylmethacrylate and plasticizer dioctylphthalate.
These two mixtures are combined in a 1:1 ratio to create the paint which has a buttery consistency and which will not dry unless heated to a temperature of about 250° F.
I hope I am describing this well enough. If it is ok to put the Patent number here then I will. I think if everyone could read it themselves then they would be able to help me out alot more.
So it seems pretty straight-forward to me (if I a not missing something).
My question is, how does an individual like myself get ahold of these materials and where? I know where to get the pigments but not where I can get ahold of the correct Polymers and plasticizers and such.

I appreciate any help that can be given on this topic. Hope I'm posting in the correct place. Thanks alot.

Offline Borek

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Re: Plastisol Paint materials help
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2008, 03:24:33 AM »
My question is, how does an individual like myself get ahold of these materials and where?

After about 15 seconds googling I suppose the Rohm ingredients you can buy from Rohm America Inc.
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Offline Yannuit

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Re: Plastisol Paint materials help
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2008, 10:53:11 PM »
I dont nessesarily need the Rohm ingredients. I need polymethacrylate or methylmethacrylate as well as dioctylphthalate or some similar plasticizer. It doesnt really matter to me which company makes it. Are there distibuters that sell these kinds of materials online? I cant seem to find anything on google, maybe I am not searching the right way.

Thanks

Offline Borek

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Re: Plastisol Paint materials help
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2008, 03:16:52 AM »
I think you need them with correct molar masses (degree of polymerization), so using any will be not enough. Sure, you can check chemical characteritics of those sold by Rohm and look if someone else doesn't sell them. But I can't be of help here.
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Offline esspee

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Re: Plastisol Paint materials help
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2008, 05:15:25 PM »
I also have a little problem (compared to the first post!). I also paint and I use mixed mediums. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there is a thinner-resistant or xylene-resistant stainer or additive I could use to add to ink and paint. I have no clue what to use and I am not sure who or where to ask. I apologize if this is "off topic" but I'm lost here..

Offline Ben.t

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Re: Plastisol Paint materials help
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 03:09:01 PM »
I also have a little problem (compared to the first post!). I also paint and I use mixed mediums. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there is a thinner-resistant or xylene-resistant stainer or additive I could use to add to ink and paint. I have no clue what to use and I am not sure who or where to ask. I apologize if this is "off topic" but I'm lost here..

I think I can help you with this, but Im not sure what you are asking.

what i got from the question was "is there a solvent resistant "stainer" or "additive" that can be mixed with paint/ink.

the problem with that is most inks and paints are solvent based(so they will not be able to receive a non-solvent based liquid)

if your trying to word your question differently as to not give away just what kind of art you do(i have a suspicion) and you couldnt get an answer on 12ozprophet.com then just PM me your question and ask your question more directly without camouflaging it.

Offline rmallison

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Re: Plastisol Paint materials help
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2009, 12:29:11 PM »
I too am an artist with NO knowledge of chemistry and I have been trying to get a Plastisol ink maker to formulate a smallish order of
paint like AMACO's Genesis. I'm told that the process of making the buttery heat setting medium is a little more complicated than just mixing two products 1:1. But, I wouldn't know if someone was pulling my leg or not.  I assume you are referring to the patent number  by Thomas Dier (1033 Lunaai St., Kailua, HI, 96734) and John Pitre (46-35 Kahala Ave., Honolulu, HI, 96816) I have tried to get in touch with them but haven't heard anything.

I would suggest that you get in touch with Plastisol ink makers, the kind of companies that service the silk screen printing business with specialty inks. Maybe you could stay in touch with me and tell me what kind of prices you are getting quoted.

Offline marquis

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Re: Plastisol Paint materials help
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2009, 07:21:20 PM »
Hope this helps.  This is about PVC based plastisols. 

There are a lot of misconceptions. Plastisols work by swelling. For this to work on PVC, the resin has to have a very high molecular weight (about 1,000,000).  Most PVC found in toys has a molecular weight of under 100,000.  You need to get the right grade of PVC before starting.

One of the materials you were talking about is called dioctyl phthalate.  Often, this is misidentified.  The more common description is di 2-ethylhexyl phthalate (abbreviated DEHP).  It's made by a variety of companies.  Many manufacturers are switching away from this material because of possible carcinogenic issues.  So please consider this when experimenting.  Another possible plasticizer would be DOA (dioctyl adipate).

You can thin the material by adding additional DEHP, to a point.  You get to the place where the resin can no longer absorb the extra plasticizer, and the ink won't set.  The only choice then is to switch resins or lower the amount of plasticizer.

Colors can be an issue.  The PVC can add a yellow cast to the plastisol as it ages.  PVC is acid when it breaks down, so your color should be acid stable.

Hope this helps.


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