[Jose]

Hi,

Can I mix NaOH and KOH together in water. Is this "mixture" any more dangerous than "NaOH + H2O" or "KOH + H2O" individually? If I'm not wrong the equation would be something like this:

NaOH + KOH ------(water)------> (Na+) + (K+) + 2(OH-)

Am I right? Is this something I should worry about, those (Na+) and (K+) ions together in a solution.

If you're familiar with the subject, I'm considering experimenting with homemade soaps. I've done my research, but can't seem to find a "happy medium" between solid sodium soaps and liquid potassium soaps. Can I make a "creamy" product with the right proportions of NaOH and KOH together in the same aqueous solution used for the saponification process? Or should I make individual chemical reactions for each alkali and physically mix both solid and liquid soaps proportionaly after the chemical reactions take place.

Obviously I'm no chemistry expert, so any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[Donaldson Tan]

Jose: although soap are organic compounds. There's no point of mixing two strong alkali (KOH and NaOH) together, unless you want to achieve a particular OH- concentration without having too high Na+ or K+ concentration. This is essentially a physical (mixing) process.

Your proposed mixture will be as good as "NaOH + water" or "KOH + water"

[Jose]

Thanks geodome!

...I was thinking more along the lines of practicality and safety. I think it'd be much easier to make a homogeneous mixture of "purely solid Na soap" and "purely liquid K soap" if I work with a mixed solution of KOH and NaOH on a single batch and see if I can produce a "creamy" final product. It seems too messy the other way around, working with separate batches of Na soap and K soap and mixing them together.

However, my biggest concern was about safety. Is the mix of NaOH and KOH in water any more dangerous than working with each alkali individually? Sorry if I'm making you repeat things  . I'm not sure what's your take on safety and just wanna be VERY clear about it.

Thanks!

[Grumples]

Don't worry.  K+ and Na+ will not react with each other.  In fact, I don't think they'll react with just about anything.  They are used in many chemistry experiments where a non reactive ion is necessary.  In fact, the only way I know of to even precipitate them (bring out of solution) is to either electrolyse them, a process that requires large, expensive, specially made equipment (to simultaneously melt pure KOH or NaOH, run a large current through it, all while keeping it out of contact with either air or water), or to add some sort of bizarre Uranium salt.

Remember, K and Na are alkali metals. Of all the metals known to man, they are pretty much the most reactive (most of us here have seen a video of sodium exploding in water).  Conversely, since the unreacted form (K or Na) is so powerfully reactive, the reacted form (K+ or Na+) is tremendously inactive.  its one of those quirky duality things in chemistry.

You'd have an incredibly tough time reacting them even if you wanted to.

[Borek]

most of us here have seen a video of sodium exploding in water

I have seen more Back in eighties a friend of mine dropped a pea sized piece of sodium into the snow prism on the bus stop (it was heavy winter). Effects were minute but still interesting Especially influence they made on the people waiting for the bus

[Jose]

Thanks guys!

[Garneck]

I have seen more Back in eighties a friend of mine dropped a pea sized piece of sodium into the snow prism on the bus stop (it was heavy winter). Effects were minute but still interesting Especially influence they made on the people waiting for the bus

 

that must have been a show!

[jdurg]

I've seen that show many times.    I mean, when you've got a spare ounce of sodium metal that you are trying to safely dispose of, how else are you going to do it?    Over the winter I'd take small sized chunks of Na and just throw them into the snow on a cold day.  At first, nothing really happened but then you could see a puff of smoke form as the heat of the reaction melted some snow and created water which allowed the sodium to react much quicker, which resulted in more water forming, etc. etc.  Soon you'd see a bright yellow flame as the hydrogen and sodium caught fire.  If the piece is large enough, you even get a pretty loud 'pop' as everything explodes.  

[Borek]

that must have been a show!

You know the prism - bus stop by the 'Ochota' cinema

[Borek]

I've seen that show many times

Seems some ideas are worldwide and universal. Have you ever seen what piece of solid carbon dioxide does to a cup of hot drink like cofee or tea?

The funny thing is that what is left (not much) is still drinkable (but no longer hot).

[Garneck]

You know the prism - bus stop by the 'Ochota' cinema

You graduated from UW Chemistry Dept.?  
When was that?

[Borek]

http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?board=12;action=display;threadid=14

[Grumples]

If you really want to see some serious sodium explosions, check out Theodore Grey's "sodium party" in which he bough about a kilo of the stuff off e-bay and dropped it into a little kiddie pool floating in his lake.  All I can say is, watch the videos, and read his commentary.

here's a link:
http://theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Stories/011.2/index.html

I've also seen a neat trick where you get a big test tube and fill it with half oil, half water.  drop in a bit of sodium, and it will peacefully float through the oil (probably requires some special kind of oil; I didn't ask) until it touches the water- then it will go shooting up to the surface (carried by the H2 bubbles) and then sink to the bottom again.  It's pretty interesting to watch, although not as explosive.