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Topic: putting a coca cola bottle in the freezer  (Read 17702 times)

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Offline ARGOS++

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Re: putting a coca cola bottle in the freezer
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2009, 04:55:16 PM »
Dear Polleke;

another general question: the CO2 is located in the fluid normally , right?
Or is there a Chemical equilibrium between the CO2 in the liquid and CO2 outside the liquid (in the bottle), meaning there is also CO2 outside the liquid.

Yes! the CO2 is dissolved (~99%) in the liquid (water) and a minor part of it exists as carbonic acid according to:
              CO2  + H2O  <------>    H2CO3   

But the solubility in water at 0°C is more than twice the one at 25°C as you can see on:
And that’s also why the remaining CO2 gas is only a spectator.

the bubbles you are talking about, you do mean bubbles in the frozen soda?

If so: how do you know that those bubbles mean that CO2 escaped?
Cant those bubbles simply be the CO2 in the frozen liquid?

well, I never realised that a simple soda could cause so mucht problems haha

We have only three possibilities for the content of these bubbles in the frozen soda:
Air or/and water-steam and/or CO2.
But there is no way how Air could enter the frozen body, and to generate enough water steam/gas at 0°C is nearly impossible, so finally the only possibility left is CO2


PS. I do not understand what you mean by: maybe according to the release of total pressure in the moment when the container starts to break.

Or do you mean that maybe a bit of the CO2 escapes at the moment when the total pressure in the bottle is "gone" because of the breaking of the bottle? (meaning that because the bottle breaks the CO2 in the bottle can simply escapes?)

Yes! – You are right; but only the CO2 gas not dissolved in the liquid can escape and lower the total pressure of gas, not the pressure of the freezing liquid.

Good Luck!
                    ARGOS++

Offline Polleke

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Re: putting a coca cola bottle in the freezer
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2009, 10:34:40 AM »
oh ok, ARGOS,
thanks for your answers, however, I have one more question:

Quote
We have only three possibilities for the content of these bubbles in the frozen soda:

Air or/and water-steam and/or CO2.
But there is no way how Air could enter the frozen body, and to generate enough water steam/gas at 0°C is nearly impossible, so finally the only possibility left is CO2. 

You state that no air could enter the frozen body, I can agree on this, but what with air that is allready in the cola?
Or is there no air in the cola?

It makes me wonder how they produce the cola (not the recipe, but how they bottle the cola=> they make the bottle vacuum and enter the cola and CO2 or...)
I can imagine that when you put the cola in the bottle , you also mix it with air when you spray it in the bottle etc...

Offline ARGOS++

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Re: putting a coca cola bottle in the freezer
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2009, 01:00:40 PM »

Dear Polleke;

You state that no air could enter the frozen body, I can agree on this, but what with air that is allready in the cola?
Or is there no air in the cola?

It makes me wonder how they produce the cola (not the recipe, but how they bottle the cola=> they make the bottle vacuum and enter the cola and CO2 or...)
I can imagine that when you put the cola in the bottle , you also mix it with air when you spray it in the bottle etc...

I don’t know exactly how they produce cola or soda, but one should anyway be clear:
You can’t add the CO2 as a liquid or as a solid, so you have to add it as a gas.
So they will bubble it in one or other way through the soda and at the start some CO2 will escape  to build the required pressure for the system; and exactly this escaping CO2 will drive out the remaining air of the liquid.

That tells me that I haven’t to believe that some air will remain in the cola sold, because also during the bottling process some CO2 will escape and protect the liquid from collecting air.

Good Luck!
                    ARGOS++

Offline Polleke

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Re: putting a coca cola bottle in the freezer
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2009, 01:09:57 PM »

Dear Polleke;

You state that no air could enter the frozen body, I can agree on this, but what with air that is allready in the cola?
Or is there no air in the cola?

It makes me wonder how they produce the cola (not the recipe, but how they bottle the cola=> they make the bottle vacuum and enter the cola and CO2 or...)
I can imagine that when you put the cola in the bottle , you also mix it with air when you spray it in the bottle etc...

I don’t know exactly how they produce cola or soda, but one should anyway be clear:
You can’t add the CO2 as a liquid or as a solid, so you have to add it as a gas.
So they will bubble it in one or other way through the soda and at the start some CO2 will escape  to build the required pressure for the system; and exactly this escaping CO2 will drive out the remaining air of the liquid.

That tells me that I haven’t to believe that some air will remain in the cola sold, because also during the bottling process some CO2 will escape and protect the liquid from collecting air.

Good Luck!
                    ARGOS++


I am getting a bit off topic here, but why does the CO2 drive out the remaining air?
Is this just because you "push" so much CO2 true the cola that the air gets flushed away, or has this something to do with the solubility of CO2 versus air?


anyway, thanks for the answers.

Offline ARGOS++

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Re: putting a coca cola bottle in the freezer
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2009, 01:28:59 PM »

Dear Polleke;

Is this just because you "push" so much CO2 true the cola that the air gets flushed away, or has this something to do with the solubility of CO2 versus air?
You are quite close.
As Example:  We bubble some Helium through our Solvent for HPLC to drive the last remaining air out of it.
It’s a combination of a mechanically process with the Raoult's Law what moves the air out of the solvent.

Good Luck!
                    ARGOS++

Offline Polleke

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Re: putting a coca cola bottle in the freezer
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2009, 02:07:31 PM »
Ok, I see

thanks for the help ARGOS

Offline ARGOS++

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Re: putting a coca cola bottle in the freezer
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2009, 02:28:37 PM »

Dear Polleke;

You 're welcome!   ─   Soon again.

Good Luck!
                    ARGOS++

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