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Topic: what is free energy?  (Read 10816 times)

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hiro

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what is free energy?
« on: May 14, 2005, 10:57:18 AM »
^^'''''what is free energy? my lecturer explained it so unclear :'(...i did not get it...
and how to cal it?
for example:
H2O(l)    delta Hf is -286   delta Sf is -0.163
H2O(g)     ..     ..  is -242    .. .   ..  is -0.0444
what is the standard free energy of formation, in kJmol^-1, of liquid water?

and ..what is delta G?

thx ;)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2005, 12:43:54 PM by Mitch »

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Re:free energy?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2005, 02:28:32 PM »
G = H - TS
dG = dH - d(TS)

given isothermal conditions (to maintain RTP), the equation reduces to
dG = dH - TdS

dH and dS are given, whereas T is 298K because the process is carried out under this temperature.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2005, 02:30:04 PM by geodome »
"Say you're in a [chemical] plant and there's a snake on the floor. What are you going to do? Call a consultant? Get a meeting together to talk about which color is the snake? Employees should do one thing: walk over there and you step on the friggin� snake." - Jean-Pierre Garnier, CEO of Glaxosmithkline, June 2006

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Re:free energy?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2005, 04:45:34 PM »
deltaG is the free energy of formation you are looking for.
"Say you're in a [chemical] plant and there's a snake on the floor. What are you going to do? Call a consultant? Get a meeting together to talk about which color is the snake? Employees should do one thing: walk over there and you step on the friggin� snake." - Jean-Pierre Garnier, CEO of Glaxosmithkline, June 2006

Offline Juan R.

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Re:free energy?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2005, 10:10:35 AM »
What free energy? G or F?

G is the so-called Gibbs free-energy. If it is useful for you, you can think in it like a "reformulation" (this is not exact) of chemical potential. In fact, the chemical potential can be seen like the Gibbs free energy per mole of a pure compound.

F is also a free energy, but is another thing. It is useful in thermo-gravitational problems and in surface tension problems.

I think that the only manner for understanding completely both, F and G, is from the theory of thermodynamic potentials (search this in a book) from which they are derived.

Note also that F and G are really useful only at equilibrium and for macroscopic sistems, outside of equilibrium are not potentials due to inhomogeneity, and for nanosystems, for example a molecular cluster, there are no well-defined classical intensive parameters.
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Offline Juan R.

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Re:free energy?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2005, 10:19:32 AM »
I forget!!

F = U - TS

and, as said geodome,

G = H - TS

By this reason the truely free energy is F (note the relationship with energy U).

It is more correct call to G a free entalpy (because is defined from H, entalpy), but many textbooks use the term Gibbs free energy for G.

As said above the concept of free is related to the theory of potentials and to the factor TS that appears in above formulas. Note that minus TS is like if you eliminate "caloric part" of the energy or of the entalpy. Search in some textbook for the complete explanation.
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Michel

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Re:what is free energy?
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2005, 01:27:53 PM »
Hello has all!

Gravity Motors = Free Energy:
http://perpetuum.monsite.wanadoo.fr/
http://ntpo.com/invention/invention2/9_en.shtml

I awaits your comments.

Offline Juan R.

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Re:what is free energy?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2005, 06:53:49 AM »
Well, I add two comments

1) This has no link with free energy. It appears that you have misunderstood the concept of free energy F, with "freedom" energy.

2) I am very suspicious of desing of that "motor". A simple question, does that work?

3) That "motor" of course is not a perpetuum mobile, it does not violate the first law of thermodynamics like you claim. That is, i suspect, that you have some serious knowledge of science or enginnering.
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Michel

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« Last Edit: July 27, 2005, 05:36:15 AM by Michel »

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Re:what is free energy?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2005, 08:21:30 AM »

Since you are not read them, i repeat my previous post.


1) This has no link with free energy. It appears that you have misunderstood the concept of free energy F, with "freedom" energy.

2) I am very suspicious of desing of that "motor". A simple question, does that work?

3) That "motor" of course is not a perpetuum mobile, it does not violate the first law of thermodynamics like you claim. That is, i suspect, that you have some serious knowledge of science or enginnering.

Now you offer a link like some kind of "rebutal" or similar. Almost all is said by that link is wrong. Let me do some trivial comments to the post of that supposed "physicist" (which use "free energy" like "freedom" or "easily obtained energy").

The appeal to history is a typical resource by hoaxes. People make mistakes. There is two basic kinds of mistakes:

i) The revolutionary guy was wrong and rest correct.

ii) The revolutionary guy was correct and rest wrong.

Your citing of examples of (ii) case does not transform your ideas automatically. The true under an new knowledge of nature is not based in the number of citations to history that you are doing. Note: for each quote of ii) that you add, I can offer you examples of i)

"The physicists do not know how to do certain things, so they ARROGANTLY declare
that those things cannot be done. Such PRINCIPLES OF IMPOTENCE are COMMON in orthodox modern physics and help to cover up INCONSISTENCIES and CONTRADICTIONS in orthodox modern theories."

This is false. They are using both the first and second law of Nature, which are not inconsistencies or contradictions. They have been verified during centuries. There is not experimental proof known againts them. The arrogance is in you and that "physicist", which ignore centuries of experimental proofs and simply says he is correct. It is curious, but that "physicist" does not follow the scientific method, which implies that first he may show that laws are efectively violated in his experiment and after show why, however, work in the rest of situations.

"The "laws" of "thermodynamics" and "conservation of
energy" ASSUME that the physical universe that we see around
us is a "CLOSED SYSTEM". It is NOT."

The first part shows a complete misunderstanding of the author. He has simply no idea of thermodynamics. The second part is purely speculative. Nobody can show that universe is closed or open. But that author, a "physicist" with no idea of nothing, has not knowledge of the existence of models of open universes in science. Some of those works were published in Nature decades ago.

"Free Energy Inventions are devices which can tap a
seemingly UNLIMITED supply of energy from the universe, or
from hyper-dimensional sources, with-OUT burning any kind of
fuel, making them the PERFECT SOLUTION to the world-wide
energy crisis and its associated pollution, degradation, and
depletion of the environment."

Drugs are not good, in both 4 or 11D!

Your ego is impressive: "perfect solution", Yeah!

"Most Free Energy Devices probably do not create energy,
but rather tap into EXISTING natural or hyper-dimensional
energy sources by various forms of induction.

Drugs are not good!

The cites of patents is not a scientific proof. There are dozens of patents on unuseful machines, incuding dozens and dozens and dozens of false engines claimed to violate thermodynamics, or areodynamics, or mechanics, etc.

What is more, again the "physicist" is misunderstanding things when says

"A fourth type of Free Energy Device is the 'McClintock
Air Motor' (U.S. Patent #2,982,261), which is a cross between
a diesel engine (it has three cylinders with a compression
ratio of 27 to 1) and a rotary engine (with solar and
planetary gears). It burns NO FUEL, but becomes self-running
by driving its own air compressor. This engine also
generates a lot of heat, which could be used to heat
buildings; and its very HIGH TORQUE makes it ideal for large
trucks, preventing their slowing down when climbing hills."

Are you claiming that device violates thermodynamics?

"Crystals may someday be used to supply energy, as shown
in the Star Trek shows, perhaps by inserting each one between
metal capacitor plates, bombarding it with a beam of
particles from a small radioactive source"

does Star Treck violate thermodynanics?

"One other energy source should be mentioned here,
despite the fact that it does not fit the definition of Free
Energy."

That is "freely available energy" for the author.

"A Bulgarian-born American Physicist named Joseph
Maglich has invented and partially developed an atomic FUSION
reactor which he calls 'Migma', which uses NON-radioactive
deuterium as a fuel [available in nearly UN-LIMITED
quantities from sea water], does NOT produce radioactive
waste, can be converted DIRECTLY into electricity (with-OUT
energy-wasting steam turbines), and can be constructed small
enough to power a house or large enough to power a city. And
UNLIKE the "Tokamaks" and laser fusion MONSTROSITIES that we
read about, Migma WORKS, already producing at least three
watts of power for every watt put in. ["New Times" (U.S.
version), 6-26-78, pages 32-40.]"

also this violate thermodynamics?

"And then there are the 'cold fusion' experiments that
were in the news a few years ago, originally conducted by
University of Utah researchers B. Stanley Pons and Martin
Fleischmann. Some U.S. Navy researchers at the China Lake
Naval Weapons Center in California, under the direction of
chemist Melvin Miles, finally took the trouble to collect the
bubbles coming from such an apparatus, had them analyzed with
mass-spectrometry techniques, and found HELIUM 4, which
PROVES that atomic FUSION did indeed take place, and enough
of it to explain the excess heat generated."

Also this violates thermodynamics?

The author, a "physicist" with no idea of nothing AGREE!!!!!

"There are GOOD INDICATIONS that the so-called "laws" of
thermodynamics are NOT so "absolute". For example, the late
Physicist Dewey B. Larson developed a comprehensive GENERAL
UNIFIED Theory of the Physical Universe, which he called the
'Reciprocal System', (which he describes in detail in several
books such as "Nothing But Motion" (1979) and "The Universe
of Motion" (1984)), in which the Physical Universe has TWO
DISTINCT HALVES, the material half and an anti-matter half,
with a CONTINUOUS CYCLE of matter and energy passing between
them, with-OUT the "heat death" predicted by thermodynamic
"laws". His Theory explains the Physical Universe MUCH
BETTER than modern orthodox theories, including phenomena
that orthodox physicists and astronomers are still scratching
their heads about, and is SELF-CONSISTENT in every way. Some
Free Energy Devices might be tapping into that energy flow,
seemingly converting "low-quality energy" into "high-quality
energy".

BUT ALL phenomena, US patents, work of other like that of Pons verify PERFECTLY the LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS). Moreover, perhaps you ignore that Pons experimenta newer were conveniently reproduced, which implies that measured flow of nucelus was an error or caused by the source or chemical contamination or etcetera. In fact, even own Pons NEWER was able to repeat experiment. During last decade he has failed to repeat results.

Larson model is simply wrong since ignore lots of experimental data.

Last word by "physicist" are the best epitaphe to this nonsense.

"Also, certain religious organizations such as 'Eckankar'
[1-800-568-3463, http://www.eckankar.org ] and 'Sant Mat'
teach their Initiates that the physical universe is only the
LOWEST of at least a DOZEN major levels of existence, like
parallel universes, or analogous to TV channels, as described
in books like "The Path of the Masters", by Dr. Julian
Johnson, 1939, and "Eckankar: The Key to Secret Worlds", by
Sri Paul Twitchell, 1969. For example, the next level up
from the physical universe is commonly called the 'Astral
Plane'. Also, each major level or 'plane', possibly even the
physical plane, is SUB-DIVIDED into NUMEROUS SUB-planes.
Long-time Initiates of these groups have learned to 'Soul
Travel' into these higher worlds and report on conditions
there. It seems plausible that energy could flow down from
these higher levels into our physical universe, or be created
at the boundary between them, given the right configurations
and motions of matter to channel it. This is supported by
many successful laboratory-controlled experiments in PSYCHO-
KINESIS throughout the world, such as those described in the
book "Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain"."

The first canonical scientist.

Michel

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Re:what is free energy?
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2005, 04:03:36 PM »
Afflict, I do not speak English.

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