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Topic: Water condensor  (Read 20710 times)

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Corvettaholic

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Water condensor
« on: May 27, 2005, 01:37:28 PM »
I was once again thinking about how hard it would be to live in the middle of nowhere and still have power and water. As far as the water issue, I've tossed around the idea of condensing water from water vapor in the air. Being that Arizona is really arid, I won't get much water... but something is better than nothing. Found a link to a company that actually makes this device:

http://www.vapaire.com/homepage.html

My question is, how do they do it?

Offline ksr985

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2005, 01:56:25 PM »
in all likelihood, it has fractional distillation as its principle...
i remain, always,
ksr985

Corvettaholic

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2005, 01:58:30 PM »
What is fractional distillation? Put it in layman's terms for me please  ;D

And... how do I do it myself in a practical, redneck sort of way? All my science experiments can be considered extremely redneck. I just like proof of concept.

miaskows

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2005, 04:00:46 PM »
They just cool air below Dew point and make it possible to condense water humidity out of it.

Offline xiankai

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2005, 09:06:05 PM »
they do that by using a refrigerant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerant

so that the machine can work self sufficiently
one learns best by teaching

miaskows

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2005, 07:00:31 AM »
The principle is relatively simple. The main problem is to condense water from air by spending minimal possible energy. Our home air conditioners actually do the same job- the air is cooled there below dew point and water condensate unloaded via it's pipe out to the drain. In the other words common used air conditioners spend energy for cooling and drying of air.
As far as I can understand  the invention-they built device that spends  energy only (or mostly) for drying of air along with collecting of water condensate and (probably) addition of salts for obtaining water close by it's quality to the common  drinking or even mineral water( humans can't drink distillted mineral water).
Simplified energy balance for the process could be represented as follows:
E=E1+E2
Where:
E- is overall energy that must be spent to condense water from air
E1-is energy that must be spent for cooling of the air up to dew-point.
E2-is energy spent for cooling of water vapor(humidity) only ,up to dew-point.
What is important is that E1>>E2
Consequently most of  the energy actually applied for cooling of huge amounts of the air rather then for condensation of tiny amounts of water in it.
The same problem is exists in distillation of sea water. What you actually looking for there, that is to get rid of dissolved minerals.The energy you need to apply for rendering of dissolved NaCl (and other salts of sea water) to solid state  or more concentrated solution, is nothing to be compared with energy that must be applied for evaporation of water. The solution is simple. In modern plants for distillation of sea water the energy is saved by recuperation of heat of distillate. The water distillate just transfers it's heat to inlet flow of cold sea water (that circulated in condensers etc).
Almost only lost of energy are trough  heat isolation of heat transfers and pipes.
In the other words if you are going to distill water in medieval way - by heating it up to boiling point and collecting of hot distillate, you should spent, say, one kwatthour of energy for 1 Lit. of distillate. But if you  should use hot distillate for preheating of cold water to be distillated, you should be able to collect,say,10 Liter of distillate per 1 kwatthour of energy.
All the described above could be applied for condensation of water from air.
Using of home air conditioners for condensation of air humidity is pretty same to medieval distillation of water, but instead of loosing of energy with hot distillate you do it with cold outlet flow of air.
All you have to do is to adjust additional powerful heat transfer to a home air conditioner, where cooled up to dew-point and water free outlet flow of air will be used for precooling of inlet flow of wet air. Such modification  along with changing of power supply, volume rate of air flow and other parameters and parts  of  air conditioner, will cause sharp raising of amounts of water condensate per kwatt of spent electricity and dropping of it's initial effectiveness as air cooler.
In ideal case the devise should condense water from air and return it dried and almost at room temperature.

Offline billnotgatez

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2005, 09:16:09 PM »
miaskows -

What do you mean by

distillted mineral water

and

( humans can't drink distillted mineral water)


miaskows

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2005, 11:07:55 AM »
It was mistaken typing. I meant 'distillated water" sure not "mineral distillated  water", sorry. :)
Next time will be more carefull with my writing.

Offline billnotgatez

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2005, 12:33:14 PM »
 miaskows -

If you meant to say

"( humans can't drink distillted water)"

You would also be incorrect with that statement as well


miaskows

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2005, 01:05:01 PM »
This time i think i do correct with my statement. Sure that noone should get sick or even die if he drinks the distillated water couple of times or even weeks. But human body needs the minerals that common used drinking water is contents. We also get them from our meal, all right, but still you never could be able to find plastic botles of distillated water in your supermarket labeled: "New!! Pure , minerals free distillated water.Drink it and feel difference! With white winged angel giving you golden glass of distillate that should bring your soul faster to the glory and eternity " or sort of it.  :)

miaskows

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2005, 02:25:44 PM »
What interesting is that the producers of the devise have not mentioned addition of minerals to their water. But they claimed it does meet  all standards. ???

Offline billnotgatez

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2005, 09:09:50 PM »
miaskows -

Read this site so you will not continue to perpetuate myths.

http://www.durastill.com/myths.html


miaskows

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2005, 09:58:02 AM »
I never felt meself so ashamed. Then all of that staff about minerals and a taste has been  myth. Probably. It was very interesting and usefull to read the articile about distillated water. In the other hand it  seems like  advertisizing , even very persuative and scientifically proved, but still advertisizing. I am sure a company that makes filters or sort of it can get for itself hightly professional explanation why we do must drink water contaminated with minerals and not salts free one.
But still thank you for the link.

miaskows

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2005, 01:46:50 PM »
billnotgatez-
If you should suceed to find on net somthing so much persuasive about existence of God, as you has found about harmless of water distillate, i should turn to priest .
 I will let to meself to return to the  invention.
The main idea of Vapair:
"Our device Needs NO Water Source...Generated Water from the Air We Breathe"
Sounds great.
It could have been sounded much more impressive with follow banner:
"Our device Needs No Water and Electricity Sources... Generated water from the Air We Breathe and operated on the Solar Energy"
I think there is Targed Group of customers that would be interested in such device.
All that have to be done is adjusting of powerfull solar batteries and generator. Then you could be able to carry it with you to nowhere (humidy ,sunny sea coastal desert area or some other wilderness) and to enjoy your drinking.
It will be much more expensive toy, but there would always be somebody that should find it usefull.

Offline billnotgatez

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Re:Water condensor
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2005, 02:03:40 PM »
miaskows –

I did not want you to be ashamed, rather educated and skeptical.

The site I posted would normally make me skeptical of both sides of the issue, but my training and readings in other areas makes me side with the article I posted. You might consider the ad hominem argument against the article, but not as a debater. The only negative study I have heard about is when bicyclist and runners over hydrates themselves, which is not someone who is normally ingesting water.

It is my impression that there are systems that distills and filters pure water out of exhaust gasses of engines. I can not think of a way that there would be minerals in that water either, but they drink it. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,
Bill


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