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Topic: Sodium Bicarb mix in D5W or Normal Saline  (Read 25771 times)

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flightmedic

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Sodium Bicarb mix in D5W or Normal Saline
« on: June 27, 2005, 04:31:20 PM »
Hi All!

This is my first post in this forum, which I found by Googling 'chemical reaction simulator online bicarb'.

I work as flight medic and was asked by a flight nurse if Sodium Bicarb (NaCHO3) is to be delivered in EITHER an IV of D5W or Normal Saline.  

I haven't been able to find a preference for one over the other and found no contra-indications.

I do know that Calcium Chloride and Bicarb can precipitate, causing bad things, especially in a patient's IV.

Thanks!

DelRoy

PS Is there such a thing as an online chemistry lab simulator where you can 'mix' different substances and determine the reaction?

arnyk

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Re:Sodium Bicarb mix in D5W or Normal Saline
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2005, 05:55:35 PM »
I think it would be reasonable to expect accurate responses if you were to post some of the reactants you want to mix.  

flightmedic

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Re:Sodium Bicarb mix in D5W or Normal Saline
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2005, 01:34:01 AM »
Sorry for incomplete info...

I have a sodium bicarb solution that I want to deliver to a patient via IV.

I can choose [for the IV solution] either a solution of Normal Saline (0.9 percent NaCl in sterile water) or an IV of D5W ( 5.0% glucose in sterile water).

Would either IV solution cause an issue with precipitation?
(I don't believe so, but no definitive or supportive data.)

Hopefully that will clear up any ambiguities.

Thanks again,

DelRoy

Offline hmx9123

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Re:Sodium Bicarb mix in D5W or Normal Saline
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2005, 04:50:54 AM »
Sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) is highly soluble in water.  Sodium chloride is less so, but still highly soluble.  Since both of these are extremely dilute solutions you're working with, there should be no problem.  A mixture of these or with the glucose solution shouldn't present any problems at the dilutions you're working with.

The reason the calcium precipitates is due to the effect of the calcium ion in solution reacting with an anion, either bicarbonate or another anion such as hydroxide or carbonate).  In this case, you have the same cation (sodium) so that won't occur.  Your only problems would be: reaching saturation (but your solutions are very dilute so this won't happen), forcing equilibrium of one of the sodium salts to form a precipitate (not likely given the high solubility of these compounds), salting out the glucose solution (not going to happen with the dilute solutions you're working with).

If you want to try it at home, dissolve some baking soda in water (sodium bicarbonate) and add it to a salt water solution.  You shouldn't get any precipitate even at very high concentrations of the salts.  Then try adding some sugar water to it.  I doubt you'll see any precipitate there either, unless you're using nearly saturated solutions.

Offline xiankai

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Re:Sodium Bicarb mix in D5W or Normal Saline
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2005, 05:29:26 AM »
after reading up abit, the only difference i can find between both IV solutions is that D5W is used instead if the patient has low blood sugar or high sodium
one learns best by teaching

Offline AWK

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Re:Sodium Bicarb mix in D5W or Normal Saline
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2005, 06:24:50 AM »
Quote
Sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) is highly soluble in water.Sodium chloride is less so, but still highly soluble.
It is not true. NaHCO3 is less soluble than NaCl. (about 4 times)
AWK

Offline DrCMS

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Re:Sodium Bicarb mix in D5W or Normal Saline
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2005, 09:24:27 AM »
Yes and no at some temperature the difference will be ~4 fold but sodium bicarbonate solubility varies a lot more with temperature than sodium chloride.

Data from CRC handbook

NaHCO3 69g/L at 0°C and 164g/L at 60°C
NaCl 357g/L at 0°C and 391.2g/L at 100°C

So at 0°C its about 5 fold and at 60°C about 2¼ fold.

Offline hmx9123

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Re:Sodium Bicarb mix in D5W or Normal Saline
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2005, 07:39:40 PM »
That's what happens when you don't look up the exact solubilities.  I would still consider sodium bicarbonate highly soluble in water.

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