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Topic: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?  (Read 19280 times)

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Offline DarkLightA

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Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« on: November 19, 2009, 04:20:02 PM »
I'd really, really, really appreciate it if someone read through the following any commented on any mistakes, bad thinkings etc. I know it's a medium-long read, but I would be forever thankful!!!!!

------


So, I know the following rules:
1. Acid + Alkali ==> Salt + water
2. Acid + Metal ==> Salt + hydrogen
3, Acid + Metal Carbonate ==> Salt + CO2 + H2O
[4. Metal + H2O ==> alkali (? Like KOH, is that an alkali? We learnt that metal oxides are basic.) + Hydrogen]

Examples of my thinking:
1. Alkali + Acid ==> Salt + Water
NaOH + HCl ==> NaCl + H2O
and since NaCl has a valence of 0 (do you call it valence in compounds?) it works.

But, for something like CaO + HCl:
CaO + HCl ==> CaCl + OH
There's obviously missing an H there, so we add it from the only term of CaO and HCl with H in it:
CaO + 2HCl ==> CaCl2 + H2O
And CaCl2 has valence 0, so it works.

2. Acid + Metal ==> Salt + hydrogen
K + HCl ==> KCl + H
It has to be H2, so:
K + 2HCl ==> KCl2 + H2
KCl2 would have a + valence, so it wont work, however:
K2 + 2HCl ==> 2KCl + H2
And that has a valence of 0, so it works.

Other example:
Ca + HCl ==> CaCl + H
Has to be H2:
Ca + 2HCl ==> CaCl2 + H2
CaCl2 has valence 0 so it's perfect =)

3. Acid + Metal Carbonate ==> Salt + CO2 + H2O
HCl + K2CO3  ==> K2Cl + CO2 + H2O
That seems right to me: K2Cl is a happy compound with full shells.

HCl + CaCO3 ==> CaCl + HO + CO2
Okay, there's obviously a problem with H2O here, we're missing a H.
2HCl + CaCO3 ==> CaCl2 + H2O + CO2
And this seems good. CaCl2 is happy!

4. Metal + H2O ==> alkali + hydrogen
K + H2O ==> KOH + H
but you can't just have H, you have to have H2, so:
K + 2H2O ==> K(OH)2 + H2
But K(OH)2 isn't "happy", as it has a valence of +, but an extra K would fix that:
2K + 2H2O ==> 2KOH + H2
and that seems good.

But how about:
Ba + H2O ==> BaOH + H
Has to be H2..
Ba + 2H2O ==> Ba(OH)2 + H2
and then that looks good.

Offline Borek

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 06:52:51 PM »
No such things as valence in compounds, no idea what you refer to.

Surprisingly, your reactions are balanced OK. Usual approach is to decide formulas first, balance later.
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Offline BetaAmyloid

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2009, 06:58:13 PM »
I read through them (but didn't check your balanced equations) and from the reactants and products everything looks fine to me.

**Except the following**

For #3 it should be:
K2CO3 +2HCl → 2KCl + CO2+ H2O (Remember, K2 is not part of K, it is the charge of CO3)
 
I'm not positive for the very last one with Ba and H2O!

P.S. You can usually find these through google also.

Hope this helps :)
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought - Albert Szent-Györgyi

Offline BetaAmyloid

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 06:59:52 PM »
Well, you may want to ask Borek or a professional handler of chemicals to check K2CO3 since above he says that they looked okay.

I think it should be this though - although I may be wrong!  :-X

Ask Borek, he'll know.

Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought - Albert Szent-Györgyi

Offline Borek

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 07:05:14 PM »
Nah, you are right - K2Cl is wrong. My mistake. I have just skimmed and missed it. I have also missed K2 instead of 2K in #2.

Should not check such things at 1 am.
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Offline BetaAmyloid

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2009, 07:10:42 PM »
Whoa! I beat Borek at something. :P :P :P

Mmm...let me just take this moment in. ;D (Kidding)

Time differences are big from you to me! It's only 7:00 P.M. here!
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought - Albert Szent-Györgyi

Offline DarkLightA

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2009, 01:40:13 AM »
Nah, you are right - K2Cl is wrong. My mistake. I have just skimmed and missed it. I have also missed K2 instead of 2K in #2.

Should not check such things at 1 am.

This is where my thought of "valence" comes in:
K2Cl is 2 K, element 19, and 1 Cl, element 17. Add it together: 38+17=55, and that's one OVER the 54 "noble" value. So you have to get 1 more under, which would work with chlorine, so it has to be:
2KCl


I think this works =D

Offline Borek

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2009, 03:08:16 AM »
I think this works =D

Only sometimes. NaCl is 11+17=28, nowhere near "noble values" of 10, 18 or 36.
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Offline DarkLightA

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2009, 10:24:06 AM »
I think this works =D

Only sometimes. NaCl is 11+17=28, nowhere near "noble values" of 10, 18 or 36.

Okay, I realize this now, but I don't tend to do it with atomic numbers but rather valence. Then it seems to work every time =) Including NaCl.

Offline DarkLightA

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2009, 10:29:19 AM »
K2CO3 +2HCl → 2KCl + CO2+ H2O (Remember, K2 is not part of K, it is the charge of CO3)

That's what I wrote, but I didn't have subscript, sorry.

---

About the Ba + H2O, I found the following:

Ba(s) + 2H2O(l) ---> Ba(OH)2(aq) + H2(g)


Thanks for all your *delete me*

"DLA"

Offline DarkLightA

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2009, 11:24:49 AM »
NaOH(aq) + HCl(aq) ==> NaCl(s) + H2O(l)
CaO(aq) + 2HCl(aq) ==> CaCl2(s) + H2O(l)
K2(s) + 2HCl(aq) ==> 2KCl(s) + H2(g)
Ca(s) + 2HCl(aq) ==> CaCl2(s) + H2(g)
HCl(aq) + K2CO3(s)  ==> K2Cl(s) + CO2(g) + H2O(l)
2HCl(aq) + CaCO3(s) ==> CaCl2(s) + H2O(l) + CO2(g)
2K(s) + 2H2O(l) ==> 2KOH(aq) + H2(g)
Ba(s) + 2H2O(l) ==> Ba(OH)2(aq) + H2(g)

is this correct?

Offline Borek

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2009, 12:30:29 PM »
but I don't tend to do it with atomic numbers but rather valence. Then it seems to work every time =) Including NaCl.

Please elaborate, again it is not clear what you mean.
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Offline Borek

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2009, 12:32:46 PM »
CaO(aq)

Quote
K2(s)

Quote
K2Cl(s)

These are wrong, for various reasons.
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Offline DarkLightA

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2009, 12:53:33 PM »
but I don't tend to do it with atomic numbers but rather valence. Then it seems to work every time =) Including NaCl.

Please elaborate, again it is not clear what you mean.

Sorry, I realize I've made a mistake. I meant the ions it forms.

For example:

CaOH has two parts: Ca and OH.
O makes -2 ions.
H makes +
Together, -2+1=-1
So I say that OH has an "ionic charge" of -

Ca is simple enough: 2+
+2-1=+1
It has to be 0, so we need another - somewhere.
Looking back, OH is -, so by adding another of them it'll be 0:
Ca(OH)2

Ca: 2+
OH: O: 2- H: + TOTAL: -
OH: O: 2- H: + TOTAL: -

So +2-1-1=0 and that works.


Example 2:

BaCl
Barium makes 2+
Chlorine makes -
Together, +2-1=+1
So to make it 0, we need another -. This can be found in Cl, so we add one of them:
BaCl2
And there:
Ba: +2
Cl: -
Cl: -
In total: +2-1-1=0, so it's happy.

Offline Borek

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Re: Is my understanding of chemical formulae correct?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2009, 02:15:55 PM »
CaOH has two parts: Ca and OH.

I would put it "calcium hydroxide has two parts" - CaOH doesn't exist (or at least at this stage you have no idea if it does or not).

Quote
O makes -2 ions.
H makes +
Together, -2+1=-1
So I say that OH has an "ionic charge" of -

That's not bad, but dangerous - sooner or later you will hit element that can have several valencies and it won't be that easy. Besides, OH- is not a compound made of two ions O2- and H+ - it is "just" OH-.

Quote
Ca is simple enough: 2+
+2-1=+1
It has to be 0, so we need another - somewhere.
Looking back, OH is -, so by adding another of them it'll be 0:
Ca(OH)2

Molecule must be neutral, so if we know that calcium cation has charge +2 and OH group -1, it must be Ca(OH)2. OK
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