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Topic: methanol with NaCl  (Read 19469 times)

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Offline oneat

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methanol with NaCl
« on: December 16, 2009, 02:13:28 PM »
If I connect these substances, will salt dissociate ?

Offline savy2020

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Re: methanol with NaCl
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2009, 03:03:30 PM »
If I connect these substances, will salt dissociate ?
What do you mean by connect?
:-) SKS

Offline oneat

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Re: methanol with NaCl
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2009, 11:52:11 AM »
I mean mix them in one flask

Offline savy2020

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Re: methanol with NaCl
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2009, 12:05:33 PM »
I mean mix them in one flask
NaCl is ionic and Methanol is a polar solvent. So NaCl dissolves in methanol and dissociates but not to that much extent as in water.
One could explain that way.
But the actual reasoning is this- Any polar solvent is a dielectric. A dielectric reduces the force of attraction between the oppositely charged ions of the ionic compound by a factor equal to it's dielectric constant. Water has higher dielctric constant and hence most ionic substances easily dissolve in it due to greater weakening of force of attraction between oppositely charged ions
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 12:18:25 PM by savy2020 »
:-) SKS

Offline oneat

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Re: methanol with NaCl
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2009, 12:18:25 PM »
So thinking deeper.
If There is no water I can retrieve clean Na from this.
Is it true ?

Offline savy2020

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Re: methanol with NaCl
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2009, 12:19:54 PM »
So thinking deeper.
If There is no water I can retrieve clean Na from this.
By what process do you intend to retrieve pure Na.? ELectrolysis?
:-) SKS

Offline oneat

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Re: methanol with NaCl
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2009, 12:47:34 PM »
Ya. By electrolysis. Why not ?

Offline savy2020

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Re: methanol with NaCl
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2009, 12:51:58 PM »
Well of H+ and Na+ I think acc to Faraday's electrochemical series, H+ oxidised first. Even if Na+ is oxidised it combines with CH3OH to form sodium methanoate
:-) SKS

Offline Grundalizer

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Re: methanol with NaCl
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2009, 04:49:35 PM »
You can't reduce Na+ to Na (solid metal) because H+ has a higher reduction potential, and so you get H+ being reduced to H2 gas rather than Na+ being reduced to metal.

In order to get pure Na+ you'd have to electrolyse pure NaCl which requires a furnace that can heat up to 801oC and an electrolysis machine that can operate in that heat.  You will also produce chlorine gas which can kill you, and as soon as the sodium metal is created it will react with the water vapor in the air to give sodium hydroxide...so, might as well just buy a chunk of it from a chemical supplier rather than risk dying.

Offline 408

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Re: methanol with NaCl
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2009, 05:39:54 PM »
Sodium hydroxide melts at a much lower temperature than NaCl, and can be used to make Na.  I have done it small scale a few times.

Using NaCl, even if you can achieve the 800C, if you do not have fine temperature control, the Na will actually dissolve in the molten NaCl.  I tried this a few times without luck, while with molten NaOH I was able to isolate a few cubic centimeters at a time.
Also, NaCl at 800C has a noticeable vapour pressure, and it creates a metallic taste in your mouth from inhaling the vapour. Not fun. Just use NaOH.

Mandatory safety warning: molten NaOH is damn corrosive.  Be careful.

Offline Grundalizer

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Re: methanol with NaCl
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2009, 05:47:40 PM »
hahahaha +1
Quote
it creates a metallic taste in your mouth from inhaling the vapour. Not fun.

I don't know why, but picturing someone doing an experiment and then all of a sudden tasting metallic sodium and making an awful face creates a funny image

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