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Offline jsmith613

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Conjugate base pair
« on: December 17, 2009, 07:19:30 AM »
what is the conjugate base pair of Ca2+

Offline kimyacı

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Re: Conjugate base pair
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2009, 03:13:35 PM »
 Dear Friend, I think this uestion is  incomplate or wrong.because Ca+2 is not acid,so it has not conjugate base.

Offline jsmith613

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Re: Conjugate base pair
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2009, 03:51:04 PM »
Dear Friend, I think this uestion is  incomplate or wrong.because Ca+2 is not acid,so it has not conjugate base.

the conjujagte acid for Cl- = HCl
the conjugate base for Na+ = NaOH

therefore Ca2+ must also have a conjugate base

Offline Grundalizer

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Re: Conjugate base pair
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2009, 04:08:15 PM »
One usually says somthing like, Cl- is the conjugate base of HCl, not the conjugate acid for Cl- is HCl

So I would also say the question is worded a little bit unusual, but Ca(OH)2 is the base which dissociates into hydroxide and Ca2+ in water (not as strong as NaOH or KOH)

Offline cliverlong

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Re: Conjugate base pair
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2009, 04:25:54 PM »
I would take this approach (similar to Grundalizer)

Ca(OH)2 dissolves in water to provide two types of ion: Ca2+ and OH-

It is the OH- that acts as a base by taking a proton from water H20. Water is acting as the acid in this case by donating the proton to the OH-.

The equilibrium equation is

OH- + H20  ::equil:: H20 + OH-

Cunningly, the species are the same on both sides. In the H+/OH- equilibrium, OH- dominates, so the solution is strongly alkaline. Ca2+ does not appear (it specatates) and is neither acid nor base.

Clive

Offline Borek

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Re: Conjugate base pair
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2009, 04:57:54 PM »
Cunningly, the species are the same on both sides. In the H+/OH- equilibrium, OH- dominates, so the solution is strongly alkaline. Ca2+ does not appear (it specatates) and is neither acid nor base.

This is an important reaction taking place in alkalic solutions of Ca2+:

Ca2+ + OH- -> CaOH+

It also takes place in neutral solutions, although the stability constant for the complex is not that high, so the effect on pH is relatively small:

Ca2+ + H2O -> CaOH+ + H+

Still, it exists and can't be neglected. CaOH+ is a conjugate base of Ca2+.
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Offline jsmith613

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Re: Conjugate base pair
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2009, 05:06:24 PM »
so in that case, is CaCl2 neutral becasue
both the Ca2+ and the 2Cl- spectate therefore are neutral

BUT
CaCO3 is basic becasue
Ca = neutral
CO3- + H2O --> HCO3- + OH-
therefore as HCO3- is weak and OH- is strong the equillibria lies towards a higher pH

Offline cliverlong

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Re: Conjugate base pair
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2009, 05:31:22 PM »
Cunningly, the species are the same on both sides. In the H+/OH- equilibrium, OH- dominates, so the solution is strongly alkaline. Ca2+ does not appear (it specatates) and is neither acid nor base.

This is an important reaction taking place in alkalic solutions of Ca2+:

Ca2+ + OH- -> CaOH+

It also takes place in neutral solutions, although the stability constant for the complex is not that high, so the effect on pH is relatively small:

Ca2+ + H2O -> CaOH+ + H+

Still, it exists and can't be neglected. CaOH+ is a conjugate base of Ca2+.
Well there you go.

There is always something new to learn.

So there is a meaningful answer to the original question !

Clive

Offline kimyacı

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Re: Conjugate base pair
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2009, 06:07:01 AM »
 Thank you all, these are good explanations really.

Offline jsmith613

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Re: Conjugate base pair
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2009, 01:53:18 PM »
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Still, it exists and can't be neglected. CaOH+ is a conjugate base of Ca2+.

surely CaOH+ is an acid

Offline Borek

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Re: Conjugate base pair
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2009, 02:00:50 PM »
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Still, it exists and can't be neglected. CaOH+ is a conjugate base of Ca2+.

surely CaOH+ is an acid

Actually it is both base and acid, in a way similarly to HCO3-. This is called amphiprotic substance.
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