April 17, 2021, 10:43:39 PM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis  (Read 36986 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dudeman

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-9
lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« on: March 20, 2010, 08:16:44 PM »
 >:( I cannot find information about how this is made other than a few patents that describe producing it from brines. I was hoping that someone might be able to give me a little insight when it comes to this chemical. You can purchase it online 100 grams for around $18 but what is the fun in that? My idea is to take apart a lithium battery and throw the metal into some naphtha that has had a bunch of dry ice dissolved into it then drop a couple more pieces onto the lithium metal to keep it below the surface... Think it will work?  ;D

Offline nj_bartel

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1487
  • Mole Snacks: +76/-42
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2010, 04:26:40 AM »
Much easier route would be to take the lithium from batteries and react it with aqueous HCl, then add sodium carbonate.

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26420
  • Mole Snacks: +1719/-402
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2010, 05:35:36 AM »
Somehow I doubt metallic lithium will react with carbon dixoide. Even if, to produce carbonate it will have to reduce part of the CO2 to CO.

Adding some water will change the situation.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info, pH-meter.info

Offline dudeman

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-9
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2010, 05:19:52 PM »
Much easier route would be to take the lithium from batteries and react it with aqueous HCl, then add sodium carbonate.

So the when I get the Lithium Chloride and purify it I could simply add sodium carbonate? Would I need to use a solvent that would dissolve the two powders into solution? Would I need to heat the solution under reflux? Or would the reaction take place on its own?

Offline dudeman

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-9
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2010, 05:24:18 PM »
Would it work with sodium "bicarbonate"?

Offline dudeman

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-9
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2010, 05:27:38 PM »
Sorry to post again but I want to say thanks to nj_bartel for the pointer... I found a patent that describes the process thanks to him... Here is the link.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3523751.pdf

Thanks for the help...

Offline dudeman

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-9
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2010, 06:50:33 PM »
******************************
My Plan  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
******************************
Take a 500ml flask and pour in about 250ml of hardware store hcl. Heat this up to 150c for one hour to drive off any water. At this point the temperature can be brought down to 100c. To a beaker that has been heated to 100c the lithium metal is dropped inside. The hot and dry HCL is then poured over the lithium and swashed around in small amounts. When there is no longer an evolution of hydrogen stop adding the HCL. At this point I will allow the HCL to evaporate off completely. I will then add just enough ethyl alcohol to take up the lithium chloride into solution. I will place this onto a magnetic stirring and then slowly begin adding sodium carbonate until it no longer reacts. If the solution becomes to thick to stir more ethyl alcohol will be added. Then 25ml of water is added and allowed to absorb any excess sodium carbonate while the ethyl alcohol is boiled off. The heat will make the lithium carbonate less soluble in water while increasing sodium carbonates solubility. Once the solutions temperature reaches 100C the solids are filtered out and washed with dry ethyl alcohol and allowed to dry.

The dry ethyl alcohol could be substituted with cheap 70% vodka...

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26420
  • Mole Snacks: +1719/-402
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2010, 07:11:20 PM »
Take a 500ml flask and pour in about 250ml of hardware store hcl. Heat this up to 150c for one hour to drive off any water.

Sigh. How many mistakes one can make in so simple statement.

Please, don't try to do things that you have no idea about.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info, pH-meter.info

Offline dudeman

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-9
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2010, 09:00:15 PM »
Why should I not do this? I know that some HCL will be evaporated out along with any water. All vapor will be expelled through a fume hood. The reason I created that step of my plan was to make sure the lithium didn't react with any water. Will it spontaneously ignite or something when I pour hot acid over it? Please inform me because as you can see I'm really interested in chemistry. I will admit I have not taken any classes but I have done a lot of research.

Plus... How did chemistry come about in the first place? You wouldn't know anything you know if people didn't try things they had no idea about now would you?  8)

Offline nj_bartel

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1487
  • Mole Snacks: +76/-42
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2010, 09:52:04 PM »
If you heat aqueous hydrochloric acid up to boiling, you're going to drive all the acid off, fast.  There shouldn't be any need for heat at all.  The oxidation of lithium by HCl will take place at room temp (quite vigorously actually, you should keep the solution cooled if anything).  This will yield VERY soluble lithium chloride.  To this solution, you add enough sodium carbonate to both neutralize any excess acid and displace chloride to form lithium carbonate and sodium chloride.  Lithium carbonate is sparingly soluble in water while sodium chloride is very soluble.  Heat the solution at this point to make sure all sodium chloride dissolves, then filter hot to collect the lithium carbonate.

Offline dudeman

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-9
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2010, 11:25:28 PM »
If you heat aqueous hydrochloric acid up to boiling, you're going to drive all the acid off, fast.  There shouldn't be any need for heat at all.

Thanks a lot

Offline nj_bartel

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1487
  • Mole Snacks: +76/-42
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2010, 02:43:45 AM »
Water also boils at 100 oC.  Sure, there's BP elevation, but not 50 oC of it.  So there's no way you're heating to 150 oC regardless, which is the other thing I think Borek was driving at.

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26420
  • Mole Snacks: +1719/-402
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2010, 04:00:58 AM »
Actually concentrated HCl boils below 100 deg C.

You wouldn't know anything you know if people didn't try things they had no idea about now would you?

But we do know now so there is no need to risk your life/health doing things that are obviosuly wrong.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info, pH-meter.info

Offline nj_bartel

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1487
  • Mole Snacks: +76/-42
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2010, 09:37:15 AM »
Why is that, may I ask?  Or is that just how the math works out?  I've never needed to boil aqueous HCl (I have accidently in a runaway, but that doesn't count), and just assumed it was a normal colligative thing.

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26420
  • Mole Snacks: +1719/-402
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) Synthesis
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2010, 09:54:56 AM »
When you get to higher concentrations HCl becomes less dissociated and it is not obvious whether you have solution of HCl in water or water in HCl - and HCl is much more volatile.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info, pH-meter.info

Sponsored Links