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### Topic: I'm new, where can I find this book?  (Read 21057 times)

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#### BrokeThePope

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##### I'm new, where can I find this book?
« on: July 26, 2005, 09:57:22 PM »
I am looking for this book, but I'm having problems finding one and dont have timeon this public computer.

The golden book of chemistry experiments;: How to set up a home laboratory -- over 200 simple experiments

thanks

#### billnotgatez

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2005, 04:39:13 AM »
From the following web site  -

The Golden Book of Chemistry

Experiments|Ebook|PDF|114 pages|size 26,5 Mb|

More than 200 color pictures and clear, easy-to-follow directions show junior chemists how to prepare a laboratory at home, how to buy and make apparatus, and how to set up fascinating, informative experiments. In addition, there are facts about famous chemists, their contributions, and chemistry in nature and industry.

This book was pulled from all public libraries and store shelves by the government. It was said that the experiments and information contained herin were too dangerous for the general public. How'd I luck up on a copy? Well, a friend of mine who could remember checking out and reading the book when he was a kid, thought he would try to find a copy for himself just for sentimental reasons. To his surprise this book is extremely rare and expensive if you do find a copy for sale. With books going from $375 for a very damaged copy to upwards of$2,000 for a decent copy he knew it would be a task.

Edit: Russian laissez fair copyright laws not withstanding, it would be best if you send this information over our private message service.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2005, 05:50:33 PM by Mitch »

#### billnotgatez

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2005, 09:36:18 PM »
Greetings Mitch   et al,

I had assumed that the site was allowed to do its thing by the author since there is obvious de facto censorship. Obviously he is not benefiting from the high prices for this book caused by the banning (unless he is selling them for 2k). It never occurred to me that there might be some copyright issues. I did not notice the Russian extension on the link.

I agree that keeping the link off your web site is prudent, since the patriot act has been enacted. I doubt that you could take up the gauntlet against censorship and win.

If this book is so good then it is a shame that it has such a high price due to the censorship. It makes one wonder if high praise for science literacy is just lip service.

In any case if I can find it using Google, then anyone can if they know it is there.

I thoroughly enjoy this forum and hope it thrives. Some of the censorship here I do not agree with but I like it here too much to quibble.

Regards,
Bill

#### Mitch

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2005, 12:25:25 AM »
There was a discussion on the matter between the admins on the Staff forum. In my opinion the link had two strikes against it. One, it gave unsound chemical advice targeted to an audience that doesn't know better. Second, no matter the current state of sales for a book, we're not going to encourage the practice of free downloading versus legal purchasing.

Censorship, as it pertains to the probable possibility that an uneducated youth is going to get himself injured or killed by trying something posted or linked to, will be a permanent fixture of the site, if not for legal reasons, then because the staff has sound judgement.

Being an admin, I of course think the amount of censorship at the website is very minimal, so my perspective is a bit skewd on the subject. But if others have more general complaints they can direct them to the staff forum.
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#### limpet chicken

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2005, 01:06:28 AM »
The light blinds
So behold darkness as our new light
In our darkness we can see
So with others blindness
We take flight.

#### Donaldson Tan

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2005, 08:03:21 PM »
we foster safe learning in an open-minded environment. that's why there's minimal and sensible cencorship in this forum. meanwhile, feel free to try out the instant messaging feature (available to all registered users).
"Say you're in a [chemical] plant and there's a snake on the floor. What are you going to do? Call a consultant? Get a meeting together to talk about which color is the snake? Employees should do one thing: walk over there and you step on the friggin� snake." - Jean-Pierre Garnier, CEO of Glaxosmithkline, June 2006

#### bunch1962

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2005, 12:28:59 PM »
I have an original copy of "The Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments" that is in near-mint condition. I checked it out of my elementary school library when I was 8 years old and my friends and I thought it was the greatest book we'd ever seen. I loved the book so much that my parents bought it for me for Christmas. We performed all of the experiments in it. I don't think it was a dangerous book at all because it promoted mature, scientific behavior. The chemicals it recommended using were dangerous in many cases if used improperly, but the book was geared toward their safe usage for scientific study. Some of the chemicals included in the book's experiments were:

Carbon Tetrachloride
Hydrochloric acid
Lye
Sodium Bisulfite (Sani Flush)
Wood alcohol

Some of the toxic substances produced by experiments in the book included:

Amonia
Chlorine gas
Hydrogen gas
Hydrogen sulfide
Sulfuric acid

All of these substances were produced in small quantities and the aparati that were used usually included some sort of neutralizing component. I did all of the experiments in the book and performed some for my 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th grade science classes.

The point is that there used to be a lot of chemistry sets and books like this one and kids could only mess with these things after they'd demonstrated they were responsible enough to do so on their own, or if they were too young, they did experiments under their parents' supervision. When I was 9 I got a Gilbert Chemistry Set (which was a fantasy gift) and I recall it having Cyanide in it.

Anyhow, I've always loved that old book and am surprised it was banned.  :twitchsmile:

#### buckminsterfullerene

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2005, 04:35:15 PM »
you can just get almost any chemistry book and find dangerous chemicals in it..
but how is hydrogen gas dangerous..
as far as to my knowledge, H2 is soo light that in air it would disperse very fast, making it less a risk of explosion or fire hazard then propane and methane, and all that nice heavier compounds that kill many people.  I mean it has been proven that the most likely cause of the Hindenburg accident was not the hydrogen but the spark caused on the highly flammable coating outside of the vessel.
it would only be dangerous under high concentrations in a relatively small area....
and i really do not see anything wrong with the golden book of chemistry experiements, i have the .pdf copy of it, and really its a collecteble, is not like i could print out several copies to sell, i mean i probably could, but it would not be original now would it.. there are some factors that would apply to the copyright laws, and generally when a book is more than a certain number of years (forgot how many) the book becomes something that can be copied and resold by virtually anyone, this is the case with Romeo and Juliet, or any of the shakespeare's works, i think even any of the arthur conan doyle's works can be found online with out any risk from copyright laws.  you cannot say that you wrote it still, but who would do that , and i am pretty sure that a banned book may be somewhere.. but really i like it, it tells you where you can get some materials from grocery stores, and hardware stores etc. etc.
currently a student attending high school in South Florida, capital of all the hurricanes that come through the US, and the sunshine state.  My interests falls into electrochemistry going to renewable resources of energy, i like hydrogen fuel cells and solar energy

#### mike

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2005, 06:58:32 PM »
Quote
I don't think it was a dangerous book at all because it promoted mature, scientific behavior. The chemicals it recommended using were dangerous in many cases if used improperly, but the book was geared toward their safe usage for scientific study.

So you say the book isn't dangerous, however the chemicals it recommends are?? Sure the book may promote safe use of the chemicals but it is naive to think that children (or adults) won't misuse or misunderstand the book.

Quote
Carbon Tetrachloride
Hydrochloric acid
Lye
Sodium Bisulfite (Sani Flush)
Wood alcohol

Some of the toxic substances produced by experiments in the book included:

Amonia
Chlorine gas
Hydrogen gas
Hydrogen sulfide
Sulfuric acid

These are not chemicals that "kids" should be playing with. Although not all necessarily "toxic".

Quote
I recall it having Cyanide in it.

Thankfully times have changed! Why does a chemistry set need cyanide? I assume this is sodium cyanide or similar and not cyanide gas?

Quote
you can just get almost any chemistry book and find dangerous chemicals in it..

True, but why should we promote it?

Quote
but how is hydrogen gas dangerous..

Read the MSDS!! It is extremely flammable!

Quote
and i really do not see anything wrong with the golden book of chemistry experiements,

Ok so I haven't read the book, but my first guess is that it doesn't reference any MSDS or other up-to-date safety literature (this is one thing I can think that is probably wrong with it)

Quote
there are some factors that would apply to the copyright laws

Correct, maybe go and find out the specifics then, different laws for different countries and different circumstances....

Please practice chemistry safely and promote the safe use of chemicals.
There is no science without fancy, and no art without facts.

#### buckminsterfullerene

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2005, 09:32:56 PM »
Quote
Quote
but how is hydrogen gas dangerous..
.

Read the MSDS!! It is extremely flammable!

but i said that is dangerous under high concentrations, the lightness of hydrogen means that the hydrogen molecules would disperse very fast in air, and would thus not pose such a great threat.  though i agree that it is extremely flammable, even more per gram than other fuels, but other fuels are more dangerous in the fact that they are heavier and would not disperse as fast in air.

hmmm.... about the cyanide, i remmember a when i was like 9 or 10 got a chemstry set, contained cyanide inside, that was only about 8 or 7 years ago, but do not know what kind of cyanide it was, but it was solid, maybe blue colored.

P.S. the book was banned in 1960
« Last Edit: November 28, 2005, 09:40:50 PM by 3.3.141592653 »
currently a student attending high school in South Florida, capital of all the hurricanes that come through the US, and the sunshine state.  My interests falls into electrochemistry going to renewable resources of energy, i like hydrogen fuel cells and solar energy

#### mike

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2005, 09:52:49 PM »
Quote
but i said that is dangerous under high concentrations, the lightness of hydrogen means that the hydrogen molecules would disperse very fast in air, and would thus not pose such a great threat.

Remember that high and low concentrations are relative terms. Have you checked the flammability limits for hydrogen? This will tell you at what concentrations hydrogen is safe and dangerous. Although you are probably correct in saying that not enough hydrogen would be produced to  pose a serious danger. The problem comes when the student, on successfully completing the reaction decides it would be great to see what happens when the reaction is scaled up etc etc....

I am intrigued as to what use the cyanide would have had in the chemistry set, anyone know?

And by the way, who banned the book in 1960? and where is it banned from?

Cheers
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#### buckminsterfullerene

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2005, 11:54:26 PM »
the book was banned in the US in 1960, it was banned by the government, it is said that the reason that they stated was because the information contained in the book was to dangerous for the general public..

i asked my self the same question about the cyanide, i was afraid to take out hearing how dangerous it was, but they were atleast sensible to put outside the container DO NOT INJEST   (like that would do much), bought it in a toy store (out of all places)

currently a student attending high school in South Florida, capital of all the hurricanes that come through the US, and the sunshine state.  My interests falls into electrochemistry going to renewable resources of energy, i like hydrogen fuel cells and solar energy

#### jdurg

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2005, 08:35:35 AM »
I do not know of any cyanide compounds which are blue colored.  What you may have had was a cyan colored dye which probably had the cyanide name in there.  (As cyan blue like color).  I know that the chemical dye "cyanine" is still used extensively today.  So there's a high chance that you had cyanine dye in your set and NOT cyanide salt.

For the hydrogen, if memory serves me correctly, it forms an explosive mixture with air at concentrations of as little as 5%.  So if you have a 10 liter container and there was 500 mL of hydrogen gas, there would be an explosive mixture.  In addition, in experiments that generate hydrogen gas, the concentration of H2 at the site of generation is ENORMOUSLY higher than that of the surrounding room.  Even if the H2 does disperse quickly, any source of ignition where the H2 is being generated can cause a vicious fire or explosion.  Finally, while I hate to say it, the general public is incredibly ignorant in terms of safety so it has to be assumed that any possible accident can and will occur if a misinformed individual is doing it.  I know that in every experiment I've done involving hydrogen, the gas is collected into some type of container.  We aren't just letting H2 generate and escape out into the atmosphere.
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#### Borek

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2005, 09:00:23 AM »
I do not know of any cyanide compounds which are blue colored.

Prussian blue:

3FeCl2 + 4FeCl3 + 18KCN -> 18KCl + Fe4[Fe(CN)6 ]3

or

3Fe2+ + 4Fe3+ + 18CN- -> Fe4[Fe(CN)6 ]3

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« Last Edit: November 29, 2005, 09:00:48 AM by Borek »
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#### mike

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##### Re:I'm new, where can I find this book?
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2005, 07:15:23 PM »
There are a few Gilbert chemistry set photos on the net and from what I can tell the "cyanide" is sodium ferrocyanide (although I don't think this is blue?? maybe yellow??)
There is no science without fancy, and no art without facts.