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Topic: tension  (Read 6921 times)

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Offline Saionji

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tension
« on: August 29, 2010, 06:03:00 PM »
Why the firefighters add agents surfactants in water to delete certain types of fire? I think that some properties of tension are changed, but I do not understand how it ocurrs and how could help.

Offline Jorriss

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Re: tension
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2010, 03:20:00 AM »
What is needed to sustain a fire?

Offline Saionji

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Re: tension
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2010, 06:26:53 PM »
High temperatures, is formed in reaction exothermic oxidation and by this require an activation energy...sorry, what is?

Offline Jorriss

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Re: tension
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2010, 11:00:39 PM »
Essentially a fire needs three things to keep going.

1) Heat
2) Fuel
3) Oxygen

If you put out a fire, you're doing so by taking out one of those criteria.

As examples, water reduces temperature. Cover a small fire with a glass and the oxygen burns up.

What might a surfactant do?

Offline Saionji

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Re: tension
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2010, 11:04:13 PM »
Help on the solubilization and on the dispersion of phases ?

Offline Jorriss

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Re: tension
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2010, 01:50:04 AM »
I don't know what the assignment was but I can't imagine they are looking for something like that (albeit I dont really know what you mean there).

What I meant is, does adding a surfactant lower the temperature so the reaction can't keep going? Does it somehow interfere with the reactants so they can't be used? Does it displace oxygen? Use oxygen?

There are three aspects of fire, 1) fuel 2) oxygen 3) heat. A surfactant must effect one or more of those. Which ones could a surfactant effect? Start there imo.

Offline Saionji

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Re: tension
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2010, 12:50:52 PM »
Only fuel?

-If the surfactant is added to water, the water will become more stabilized
-when the water get contact with the fuel, the interations and forces in a water will be different of some manner
-heat you mean temperature? I believe that when the water had interaction with the fuel, the fuel will therefore interact differently with the oxygen, and if it stop burns the temperature will decrease faster.

Offline Borek

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Re: tension
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2010, 02:11:43 PM »
What happens to water with surfactant added? In a bath? When washing?
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Offline Saionji

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Re: tension
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2010, 06:41:04 PM »
What happens to water with surfactant added? In a bath? When washing?
You mean " what happens to surfactant with water added?" Sorry, I found nothing about it, I do not know really what happens...

Offline Borek

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Re: tension
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2010, 03:05:58 AM »
No, I mean exactly what I wrote, and you know perfectly well what is happening, unless you are trying to say you have never washed nor bathed.
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Offline Saionji

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Re: tension
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2010, 11:00:43 AM »
If is not a quimical answer, can I say that bubbles are formed? When the water get contact, can I say that the water dissolve the surfactant and the mixture formed is sticky?

Offline Borek

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Re: tension
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2010, 02:00:53 PM »
It has nothing to do with solution sticky, but you are finally getting somewhere. Bubbles mean foam. Think about foam and three aspects of fire.
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Offline Saionji

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Re: tension
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2010, 03:48:47 PM »
The foam should hinder the movement of oxygen to let the system isolate? In the fire should ocurrs an emotion between water and fuel and surfactant agent, for this the movement of oxygen and vapors will be affected?

Offline Borek

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Re: tension
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2010, 06:06:32 PM »
The foam should hinder the movement of oxygen

Yes.

Quote
to let the system isolate? In the fire should ocurrs an emotion between water and fuel and surfactant agent, for this the movement of oxygen and vapors will be affected?

No idea what you are trying to say  :o
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Offline Saionji

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Re: tension
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2010, 06:12:51 PM »
In the contact water/fuel happens an emulsion. The movement of oxygen and vapors produced will be hinder, affecting the burning of oxygen.
My english is bad

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