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Topic: Nucleur loop  (Read 5538 times)

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Offline orgstudy

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Nucleur loop
« on: December 27, 2010, 04:16:41 PM »
This is a question of Nuclear Chemistry...

Look at the pic,

Eqn I is Beta Plus Decay
Eqn II is Beta Minus Decay

Eqn III is my question that is this question possible. Actually I know its not as it violates Energy conservation Law and some other also,,, but my question is why???

If any isolated atom can emit an electron according to beta minus decay (which increases atomic number) and also can emit a positron according to beta plus decay (which decreases atomic number) then why Eqn III is not Possible???
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Offline Mitch

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Re: Nucleur loop
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2010, 12:41:28 AM »
Three things coming together at the same time would be very difficult to do in lab, to the point of impossibility.
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Offline orgstudy

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Re: Nucleur loop
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2010, 03:32:41 AM »
So you mean its just difficult ... but the process is possible???
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Offline Juan R.

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Re: Nucleur loop
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2010, 09:50:30 AM »
I just do not understand well your question.

Something as

Z-1AX :rarrow: ZAX + e- + anti-v   (1)

is possible and subsequently ZAX could follow further decay if there is enough energy

Energy + ZAX :rarrow: Z-1AX + e+ + v    (2)

Whereas something like

Energy + ZAX + e- + anti-v :rarrow: Z-1AX + e+ + v + e- + anti-v

is not an elementary reaction it is possible as a net reaction (1+2). Was that your question?
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Offline Juan R.

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Re: Nucleur loop
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2010, 01:12:26 PM »
I just do not understand well your question.

Something as

Z-1AX :rarrow: ZAX + e- + anti-v   (1)

is possible and subsequently ZAX could follow further decay if there is enough energy

Energy + ZAX :rarrow: Z-1AX + e+ + v    (2)

Whereas something like

Energy + ZAX + e- + anti-v :rarrow: Z-1AX + e+ + v + e- + anti-v

is not an elementary reaction it is possible as a net reaction (1+2). Was that your question?

Sorry, the last equation is wrong, the net equation (1+2) is

Energy :rarrow: (e+ + e-) + (v + anti-v)

that is, a double pair creation.
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Offline orgstudy

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Re: Nucleur loop
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2010, 02:59:07 PM »
Is Energy is required for the positron decay?? Isnt it a spontaneous radioactive reaction.

Actually i just want the answer theoretically that is it possible that a nucleus can decay e- and e+ and v and anti-v and still it remains same. Well i kind if understood why not after reading your post but i still have some problem understanding it.

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Offline Juan R.

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Re: Nucleur loop
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2010, 03:51:42 PM »
Is Energy is required for the positron decay?? Isnt it a spontaneous radioactive reaction.

The conversion of a proton to a neutron increase in mass and requires energy. It will be spontaneously if there is enough energy available to the proton.

Actually i just want the answer theoretically that is it possible that a nucleus can decay e- and e+ and v and anti-v and still it remains same. Well i kind if understood why not after reading your post but i still have some problem understanding it.

I think that I already answered that. The net equation (1+2) is

Energy :rarrow: (e+ + e-) + (v + anti-v)

Being a net equation you can add nucleus at each side

Energy + ZAX :rarrow: (e+ + e-) + (v + anti-v) + ZAX

and the result is the same. The net equation (1+2) is possible, although it is not elementary. The elementary processes are

2 y :rarrow: (e+ + e-)

and

2 y :rarrow: (v + anti-v)

Both being instances of pair-creation, where y denotes a photon and Energy = 4 y.
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Offline orgstudy

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Re: Nucleur loop
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2010, 04:13:25 PM »
Oh!!!
I got it!!!

Thanks For your *delete me*!!!!

Chemistry is a subject in which even the Professor can get confused at any time.

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