April 24, 2024, 01:08:04 AM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Sn1 and Sn2  (Read 5162 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MSA

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Sn1 and Sn2
« on: January 12, 2012, 11:15:53 AM »
Can anyone tell me more detail about Sn1 and Sn2 reactions and their difference..maybe you also can give me some example of each..tq

Offline Dan

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4716
  • Mole Snacks: +469/-72
  • Gender: Male
  • Organic Chemist
    • My research
Re: Sn1 and Sn2
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 11:41:16 AM »
Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleophilic_substitution

Or better, any organic chemistry textbook.

We are happy to answer specific questions, but the one you have asked is quite broad and really needs a whole book chapter to explain in detail.
My research: Google Scholar and Researchgate

Offline MSA

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Sn1 and Sn2
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 09:32:18 PM »
oh i see...but can you tell me in simple way how to differentiate between Sn1 reaction and Sn2 reaction??

Offline Dan

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4716
  • Mole Snacks: +469/-72
  • Gender: Male
  • Organic Chemist
    • My research
Re: Sn1 and Sn2
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2012, 03:45:22 AM »
There are a number of factors to consider - nucleophilic strength, leaving group ability, steric hinderance, carbocation stability and solvent. Do you know how these factors affect nucleophilic substitution? If not, get a textbook.

Try doing some practice problems, then post here if you are getting them wrong and we'll try to see where the problem is. The best way to get a sense for choosing SN1 or SN2 is to do practice problems.
My research: Google Scholar and Researchgate

Offline fledarmus

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1675
  • Mole Snacks: +203/-28
Re: Sn1 and Sn2
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 07:31:11 AM »

Offline orgopete

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2636
  • Mole Snacks: +213/-71
    • Curved Arrow Press
Re: Sn1 and Sn2
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 03:35:48 PM »
In my discussion of these reactions, I draw the distinction between what must happen at the extremes. For an SN2 reaction, I suggest it is similar to billiards in which the cue ball must strike a combination of balls before the object ball can move. For an SN1 reaction, it is like trying to find a parking place in a crowded parking lot. You cannot pull in until someone pulls out first.

In practice, the reactions are generally somewhere between these extremes. For some SN2 reactions, the bond breaking may be more advanced than in other examples, or it can be increased by electron withdrawing ability, solvent or heat. The attack can be advanced with electrons better able to hit the nucleus before the leaving group has much movement. In SN1 reactions, you may find some nucleophile attack occurs before the leaving group has completely diffused away. In that case, the product may have a slight amount of inversion in the product distribution.

I suggest it is easier to rationalize the reactions be starting with those you can best understand as generally SN1 or SN2. For example, SN2 reactions do not occur with tertiary halide and SN1 reactions do not occur on primary halides (unless stabilized by neighboring electrons, allylic and benzylic, for example). In between are the difficult ones, the secondary halides. From some questions, they can be truly difficult, both mechanisms, ambiguous, impossible, not enough data, help…?

My preferred method to learn substitution reactions is to read examples and try to understand why the reactions occur as they do. For example, because carbon is an electron donor (that is why tertiary carbocations are more stable), replacing hydrogens with carbon atoms will make it more difficult for an electron pair to attack the carbon. This retards SN2 reactions and increases the SN1 (carbocation formation) reaction. This will be the same reason for beta substitution to retard SN2 reactions or result in rearrangement in SN1 reactions. The effect of electron donation from the neighboring carbon. (You may find it is called hyperconjugation if CH bond electrons are being donated. However, you may also think it is due to carbon not holding its electrons tightly.)

I also concede there are some examples that become very difficult for me to correctly predict what might happen. This happens with a secondary halide and a protic solvent. Protic solvents are better able to hydrogen bond with the nucleophile or the leaving group. This can provide additional pull to the leaving group and possible carbocation formation. However, I generally assume that if written with a reasonably good negatively charged nucleophile, the reaction is likely to be an SN2 rxn rather than SN1 because increasing the nucleophile concentration can increase the rate. (Dilution can increase SN1 reactions.)

However, that isn't the greatest dilemma in predicting the products, rather competition from elimination reactions. A rule of thumb I found in the textbook written by Brown and Foote is any nucleophile with a pKa > ~12 will result in elimination.
Author of a multi-tiered example based workbook for learning organic chemistry mechanisms.

Offline qbkr21

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-8
Re: Sn1 and Sn2
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2012, 09:24:45 PM »
an sn2 reaction is much faster than an sn1 and occurs all in one step.  the nucleophile attacks and then the leaving group leaves.  all in one motion.   usually when dealing with sn2 there a is a good leaving group that is highly reactive and comes right off and very easily.  an example of this kind of leaving group would be a halide (ie. Cl, Br, ect.) or HS03-.

a sn1 is a slower reaction and involves two steps.  first the leaving group leaves, leaving a carbocation and then the nucleophile comes in and attacks.  again the main difference here is that for sn1 there a TWO steps.  an example of sn1 would be proton rearrangement where the proton migrates from a primary or secondary substrate to a tertiary where it is more stable.

Can anyone tell me more detail about Sn1 and Sn2 reactions and their difference..maybe you also can give me some example of each..tq

Sponsored Links