[brightonian]

Hi there,

I am potentially starting up a biodiesel plant in the near future in a managed woodland. In the more distant future I would like to produce as much of the ingredients myself. I am happy with the methods for leaching potassium hydroxide / sodium hydroxide from wood ash. The question is regarding the alcohol element required.

I remember doing an experiment on the destructive distillation in which pieces of wood in a test tube are heated releasing gases that are run through a beaker containing water and then to a 2nd beaker. I'm sure I won't have to explain to anyone who would take the time to answer my questions but just in case:
The gases condense on the way down to the 1st beaker and then in the water leaving behind a dark fluid containing wood tar and wood vinegar and the gas that ends up in the last beaker contains methane, CO and CO2.

As I understand it it is possible to distill methanol from the wood vinegar in the central beaker using a standard distillation column, Anyone care to confirm or dispel this for me?

If so, would it be possible to do the same thing on a larger scale i.e. 55gal drums in place of the test tube and 1st beaker (what happens the methane and other gases aren't of immediate concern)? Is bubbling the gases through water an efficient method of condensing the tar and vinegar or would a condenser be better? If i do stuck with bubbling through water will that make further distillation harder or impossible?

That's all for now, thanks in advance.

[Arkcon]

Yes, for a time, this destructive distillation of wood was a useful industrial process to produce methanol, acetic acid, coke, and tar.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destructive_distillation#Products  One of Wikipedia's references is even downloadable.

[Borek]

These days they no longer care about side products, all they do is they produce charcoal and let the smoke run away - synthetic methanol is much cheaper:





(pictures taken about a month ago in Bieszczady).

[brightonian]

Ok, thanks, I had found the wiki references thanks and I do appreciate that natural gas is the most efficient and cost effective method of methanol production but I still want to try this. As I said, the place I am looking to do this is a managed woodland, it is also an outdoor pursuits centre and they are very keen on sustainability and self-reliance. They currently use wood burners to heat the buildings and water, I think that using their wood as a source for making biodiesel would be right up their street. I'm not doing it to save money pre-se, but because it is a sustainable source of methanol from non-fossil sources. I am also intending to make use of the other chemicals.

Anyway, I know it is possible, I was hoping for some tips on specific methods or problems I might face. Once again, thanks for any help you can give me

[Jasim]

If you are going to try any of this, make sure your first focus is on safety. This can be a dangerous process if it's not done properly. Don't risk your life or health. A tiny bit in a test tube or beaker isn't the same as an industrial scale process.

[brightonian]

Thanks, appreciated and I am indeed intending to try with lab equipment before going any bigger. I am aware of the fact that I will be creating a highly explosive gas by doing this and fully intend to treat it with full caution and respect, I will probably call in an expert if and when it comes to making a larger scale version but for now, what I was hoping for is an indication of how do go about it.

I am quite happy with the anaerobic chamber for the distillation, I guess the main problem I wanted help with is the initial condensation: If I do decide to run the gases distilled from the wood through piping and then bubbled through water, will the oils, tars(probably not) ascetic acid and methanol (more likely) become irretrievably mixed or reacted with the water? would bubbling be less efficient than a waterjacketed condenser baring in mind that if the methanol et al doesn't settle out from the water I will have to heat the water as well when going through the 2nd distillation phase? The main reasons I was intending to do it that way is because I thought a pipe into a water container sounded easy to build and that it would be easy to clean what with all the tar that comes off the wood when it's destructively distilled but will the cons out weigh the pros?

Thanks again for your comments and concern!