April 29, 2024, 04:16:33 AM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Unknown substance  (Read 4432 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rutherford

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1868
  • Mole Snacks: +60/-29
  • Gender: Male
Unknown substance
« on: March 26, 2012, 09:26:24 AM »
An unknown substance reacts with water, H2 is released with only one another product- a soluble base of a metal. When you in 50cm3 of water add 10g of the unknown substance, the mass share from the product is 28.17%. What is the unknown substance?

By my thinking, the substance is a metal or a oxide or hydride of a alcaline or earth-alcaline metal.
But I don't know how to determine it. How to use the info that is given? I don't know how to write the reaction because I don't know the molar ratio of the unknown substance and water that reacts.

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27665
  • Mole Snacks: +1801/-410
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: Unknown substance
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2012, 09:40:18 AM »
Partially trial and error. Assume it was a metal. Check if you can use the data given to find equivalent mass of the metal. Does it fit any metal?

I must say wording of the question is not clear to me, but I guess it is just a matter of your translation.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Offline Rutherford

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1868
  • Mole Snacks: +60/-29
  • Gender: Male
Re: Unknown substance
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2012, 09:59:41 AM »
Just a metal won't work. What isn't clear?

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27665
  • Mole Snacks: +1801/-410
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: Unknown substance
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2012, 10:26:35 AM »
Just a metal won't work.

Yes it will. Try. If you have no idea how, try assuming it is a monovalent metal.

Quote
What isn't clear?

This part:

Quote
When you in 50cm3 of water add 10g of the unknown substance, the mass share from the product is 28.17%.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Offline Rutherford

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1868
  • Mole Snacks: +60/-29
  • Gender: Male
Re: Unknown substance
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2012, 10:44:48 AM »
1st the translation: I think that it is so said in my mother language, only "the mass share from the product is 28.17%".If I made a mistake I am sorry. I suppose that they mean the base that is made because H2 vaporizes.

I tried with a monovalent metal:
2M+2H2O-->2MOH+H2
M is the mass of the metal.
n(H2)=(10/M)/2 m(H2) is 10/M.
m(MOH)=(10/M)*(M+17)=(10M+170)/M
Now:
28.17%:100%=m(MOH):[(50+10)-m(H2)], 50 is the mass of water (d=1g/cm3).
M=24.6g doesn't fit to any metal. The nearest one is Mg but Mg is divalent.

Then I tried with the oxides, but they don't produce H2 when solubled in water.

Only hydrids left. I tried hydrid of a monovalent metal and I got that M=23g(Na). So the substance would be NaH. The problem is I don't have the answer, so if someone could confirm that I done this well.

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27665
  • Mole Snacks: +1801/-410
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: Unknown substance
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2012, 11:54:33 AM »
Have you tried with divalent metals?

Can you post the phrase in original?
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Offline DrCMS

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1296
  • Mole Snacks: +210/-81
  • Gender: Male
Re: Unknown substance
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2012, 11:59:02 AM »
I agree with NaH being the correct answer -  NaH gives 28.17% or 27.78% depending if you only count the solution rather than all the products.  So I agree that that the phrase
"the mass share from the product is 28.17%"
is open to interpretation.

Offline Rutherford

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1868
  • Mole Snacks: +60/-29
  • Gender: Male
Re: Unknown substance
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2012, 12:18:04 PM »
Ok, thanks.

Offline Olympiad_Tutor

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 42
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-2
  • BS in Chemistry, PhD in Biochemistry
Re: Unknown substance
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2012, 03:37:19 AM »
I smell an olympiad question here.  8)

Hydride was a good idea.
Nothing else that could give a soluble M(OH)n seems to match the numbers.

what's the original language of the problem?
National Olympiad winner will tutor AP Chem and Chemistry Olympiad students. Tutoring is done online via a whiteboard with Voice, Drawing capabilities. PM for details.

Offline Rutherford

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1868
  • Mole Snacks: +60/-29
  • Gender: Male
Re: Unknown substance
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2012, 07:06:17 AM »
My state doesn't compete in the IChO. This is only a preparation task for the state competition.

Offline Rutherford

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1868
  • Mole Snacks: +60/-29
  • Gender: Male
Re: Unknown substance
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2012, 08:00:22 AM »
Have you tried with divalent metals?

Can you post the phrase in original?

Oh, didn't see this. Yes I tried with divalent metals and I got that M=25.44g.

Sponsored Links