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Offline mysstic

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query about sodium fluoride
« on: May 07, 2012, 12:58:00 AM »
Hi All

I have been reading a lot about fluoride in relation to water fluoridation, and I am so confused as one say that it is a highly toxic chemical, an aluminium waste product, the other is saying that it is a natural product which occurs in many natural resources and it is good for you

I would like to ask you guys, experts, if you can provide me with some simple explanation, is it natural? toxic? safe, unsafe?  ???

Thanks very much!

Offline Borek

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Re: query about sodium fluoride
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 03:35:19 AM »
Both are true at the same time. The dose makes the poison. It is a matter of concentration. As a trace element fluoride is present almost everywhere and is a necessary part of our diet. When it is present in large quantities, it is dangerous.
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Offline AWK

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Offline mysstic

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Re: query about sodium fluoride
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2012, 05:32:22 AM »
Thanks for your reply and the wiki link.
concentration of fluoride is set under our legislation at 0.7 milligrams per litre

My concern is about the thyroid:

from wikipedia:
"Fluoride's suppressive effect on the thyroid is more severe when iodine is deficient, and fluoride is associated with lower levels of iodine.[22] Thyroid effects in humans were associated with fluoride levels 0.05–0.13 mg/kg/day when iodine intake was adequate and 0.01–0.03 mg/kg/day when iodine intake was inadequate.[17]:263 Its mechanisms and effects on the endocrine system remain unclear.[17]:266


What does it mean? associated with fluoride levels 0.05–0.13 mg/kg/day when iodine intake was adequate and 0.01–0.03 mg/kg/day when iodine intake was inadequate

So drinking about 2 or 3, or sometimes 4 L of water when it's really hot (tropics)  every day would it have an effect on the thyroid?  ???

Thanks!


Offline Borek

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Re: query about sodium fluoride
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 07:08:27 AM »
So drinking about 2 or 3, or sometimes 4 L of water when it's really hot (tropics)  every day would it have an effect on the thyroid?

4L of water at 0.7 mg/L means 2.8 mg of fluorine, I weight about 60 kg, which means 2.8/60=0.047mg/kg/day, which is below 0.05 mg/kg/day - that means as long as I my daily intake of iodine is correct I am below the dangerous level. If there were not enough iodine in my diet fluorine presence could be a risk factor.

As long as you are not in some high risk group for other reasons, don't worry.
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Offline mysstic

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Re: query about sodium fluoride
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2012, 07:56:25 AM »
Thanks for explaining it. I have hypothyroidism.
Would it be a fair statement that adding fluoride is a high risk factor for some groups? (like iodine deficiency?)

Offline AWK

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Re: query about sodium fluoride
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2012, 08:23:29 AM »
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Offline Borek

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Re: query about sodium fluoride
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2012, 09:18:23 AM »
Thanks for explaining it. I have hypothyroidism.

Consult your doctor then, we can't give you a medical advice.

Quote
Would it be a fair statement that adding fluoride is a high risk factor for some groups? (like iodine deficiency?)

It is always a matter of what is better in general. Fluoride saves millions of teeth every year, while it is not so obvious it probably means it saves hundreds of lives. Even if it puts some small groups at risk (I don't know if it does) it would be still beneficial to the society on the whole.
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Offline mysstic

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Re: query about sodium fluoride
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2012, 09:46:59 AM »
Quote
Even if it puts some small groups at risk (I don't know if it does) it would be still beneficial to the society on the whole.

Yes, that perfectly makes sense, but why is it banned then in most Europe?

Offline Borek

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Re: query about sodium fluoride
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 10:10:02 AM »
Yes, that perfectly makes sense, but why is it banned then in most Europe?

This is a political, not a scientific question. Plenty of things that are treated differently on both sides of Atlantic.
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Offline vmelkon

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Re: query about sodium fluoride
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2012, 11:53:14 AM »
Any idea why they add fluorosilicate ions rather than fluoride?
There was some wikipedia article that mentioned it while I was reading up on this fluoride thing.

I think the ions are SiF4... I forget.

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