December 07, 2021, 08:27:53 PM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: death of an amino acid  (Read 20803 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline discodermolide

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5038
  • Mole Snacks: +404/-70
  • Gender: Male
    • My research history
Re: death of an amino acid
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2012, 12:20:22 AM »
 So again, I am trying to determine at which point do these various bonds begin to break - before the final meltdown in the case of exposure to heat, rendering ashes of whatever. At that point, the first bond break, the amino is "dead" (inactive) and unable to do what it was biologically able to do - or at least do what Valine can do.
  This way of "testing" would be the same using Ph exposure or light and oxygen etc: At what point is the first bond in the amino acid breached.
[/quote]

You cannot determine when and which bond will break under a given set of reaction conditions. You can guess using the known bond energies. To replicate amino acid degradation in the lab you need to employ specific sets of conditions. For example the reaction of certain amino acids with oxygen. This requires light and a photosenstitiser to produce singlet oxygen. Depending upon the amino acid it will react or it won't. This is dependent upon the chemical structure of the amino acid.
Nature approaches this problem in a different way. It employs enzymes to cause the degradation of the amino acid but once again you cannot determine which bond breaks first.
You have to relate the structure of the amino acid to the reaction conditions you wish to employ to cause its degradation. Just attacking the amino acid with a strong acid will tell you nothing. So you have to learn experimental techniques and the chemical and physical methods of structural determination in order to find out what went on during the reaction. This you can achieve through years of study and specialization in the given area.
Development Chemists do it on Scale, Research Chemists just do it!
My Research History

Offline Olivia james

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-5
Re: death of an amino acid
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2012, 12:45:33 AM »
You keep saying I need years of study. I don't. What I need, is someone who has years of study, coupled with experience actually doing these or similar tests. One can, determine the stages at which bonds are broken. If we can identify,which we can, all of the bonds and values of each atom in the structure of threonine say, while it is fully intact (that's how we know it's Threonine - by its particular and specific properties), then we can introduce certain criteria, and monitor the effects gradually to see when any of those bonds have been breached.
  You say I need to employ specific sets of conditions. Your saying it would require this or that. That's what I've been saying. Your making the case that one can, gauge the stages, but just not me. Hello, read my first post (last line of it). And I'm glad to see you embrace the idea of specificity.
  But alas, no one here has done these specific tests. I will venture elsewhere to find these tests or to set up a meeting where we can perform these tests, to show you chemists and the lay folk, that we can and do alter nutrient molecules through any number of processes.

Offline discodermolide

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5038
  • Mole Snacks: +404/-70
  • Gender: Male
    • My research history
Re: death of an amino acid
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2012, 12:59:36 AM »
You keep saying I need years of study. I don't. What I need, is someone who has years of study, coupled with experience actually doing these or similar tests. One can, determine the stages at which bonds are broken. If we can identify,which we can, all of the bonds and values of each atom in the structure of threonine say, while it is fully intact (that's how we know it's Threonine - by its particular and specific properties), then we can introduce certain criteria, and monitor the effects gradually to see when any of those bonds have been breached.
  You say I need to employ specific sets of conditions. Your saying it would require this or that. That's what I've been saying. Your making the case that one can, gauge the stages, but just not me. Hello, read my first post (last line of it). And I'm glad to see you embrace the idea of specificity.
  But alas, no one here has done these specific tests. I will venture elsewhere to find these tests or to set up a meeting where we can perform these tests, to show you chemists and the lay folk, that we can and do alter nutrient molecules through any number of processes.

Hello, read all of the above, hello!
In order to assess the results your expert may or may not supply you, you require some knowledge in the subject otherwise how can you know if what you get is correct?
Hello, you cannot determine which bonds break first you can only estimate using bond energies and thermodynamics. Or you tell me how you can do this, you seem to know according to your latest post.
By the way the "you" was not referring to you personally. I studied organic chemistry for 30 years at the university and in the work environment, and it still amazes me. My speciality is not peptide or amino acid chemistry but, as the other organic chemists here, I am aware of their chemistry.
Development Chemists do it on Scale, Research Chemists just do it!
My Research History

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26869
  • Mole Snacks: +1742/-403
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: death of an amino acid
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2012, 04:08:31 AM »
This thread is going in circles. You assume you can ask the proper questions and understand the answers without understanding the basic. You can't, it is a waste of time.

There is some logic in the problem, and perhaps even place for some interesting research, but is has to be based on a solid understanding of the processes behind, not some vague ideas of how the chemistry works.

Topic locked.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info, pH-meter.info

Sponsored Links