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Topic: OH groups acidity  (Read 3372 times)

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Offline Big-Daddy

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OH groups acidity
« on: February 06, 2013, 02:49:22 PM »
Is an -OH group more likely to deprotonate in solution if it is next to a C=O double bond (i.e. carboxylic acid group) or if it is on its own at the end of an alkyl chain? And is it true that, overall, -OH groups are more likely to deprotonate than -SH groups?

Offline Hunter2

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Re: OH groups acidity
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 06:00:10 PM »
A COO- get better mesomer stabilized, so the hydrogen is easy to seperate.

Offline Babcock_Hall

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Re: OH groups acidity
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 06:03:24 PM »
If you know the pKa values of the compounds in question, then you have your answer already.  There are many compilations of these values in textbooks and on the web.

Offline Big-Daddy

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Re: OH groups acidity
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 06:55:41 PM »
If you know the pKa values of the compounds in question, then you have your answer already.  There are many compilations of these values in textbooks and on the web.

Well I don't. I know only the functional groups I'm considering: -COOH versus -OH versus -SH. I'd like to know the hierarchy. Hunter2 said -COOH was the best at losing its proton; would you agree?

Offline Dan

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Re: OH groups acidity
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2013, 06:45:59 AM »
Search wikipedia for acetic acid, ethanol and ethanethiol - pKa data is available for all 3.

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Offline Big-Daddy

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Re: OH groups acidity
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2013, 04:10:10 PM »
Search wikipedia for acetic acid, ethanol and ethanethiol - pKa data is available for all 3.

We are not here to do your google searches for you.

Acetic acid: 4.76
Ethanol: 15.9
Ethanethiol: 10.6

(The numbers are Wikipedia's pKa values for the 3 compounds you suggested.)

But does that necessarily mean that the order is -COOH losing its proton most easily, followed by -SH, followed by -OH?

Also, I heard previously (from a teacher at the 16-year-old level) that if asked to find which atom in an organic molecule had its proton removed in solution, it would more likely be an N atom than an O atom (so the order becomes, from first proton to be lost to last proton in solution to be lost out of these: -N with N substituted by few C atoms; -N with N substituted by only 1 H atom; -COOH group; -SH group; -OH group). Can you confirm this? I wouldn't really know what pKa values to search for to figure this out.

Offline sjb

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Re: OH groups acidity
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 04:45:30 PM »
Search wikipedia for acetic acid, ethanol and ethanethiol - pKa data is available for all 3.

We are not here to do your google searches for you.

Acetic acid: 4.76
Ethanol: 15.9
Ethanethiol: 10.6

(The numbers are Wikipedia's pKa values for the 3 compounds you suggested.)

But does that necessarily mean that the order is -COOH losing its proton most easily, followed by -SH, followed by -OH?

Also, I heard previously (from a teacher at the 16-year-old level) that if asked to find which atom in an organic molecule had its proton removed in solution, it would more likely be an N atom than an O atom (so the order becomes, from first proton to be lost to last proton in solution to be lost out of these: -N with N substituted by few C atoms; -N with N substituted by only 1 H atom; -COOH group; -SH group; -OH group). Can you confirm this? I wouldn't really know what pKa values to search for to figure this out.

What is the definition of pKa

Offline Babcock_Hall

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Re: OH groups acidity
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 07:01:05 PM »
What you were apparently taught is false, if I understand it correctly.  Consider the amino acid glycine.  There are two pKa values, 2.34 and 9.60.  The first dissociation (pKa = 2.34) is the loss of the carboxylic acid proton, and the second dissociation is the loss of the proton on the ammonium group.

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