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Offline buckminsterfullerene

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need help with fuel cell research
« on: January 28, 2006, 08:29:25 PM »
I am trying to build a one passenger fuel cell powered vehicle.  There is one problem, i need a power fuel cell, of perhaps 3-5 kW, that will be pretty small, and not so incredebly expensive.  
I will need information as to who i can contact to get such items, since it is a school project i am hoping that they will help out with the price and on top since the project will not simply be stored in a closet but can be modified by other students and other schools and colleges will be getting a glimpse of the project, we could come to an agreement.
I am also trying to find a lightweight, efficient and cheap motor, also would be very helpful if its nearby Miami, Florida....
I am also trying to find sponsoring for the project, so if anyone here knows someone or somewhere that would be able to sponsor my project, it would be of great help....
I would also like to find someone that has some knowledge about what i am doing, since i am new at this, and i am only a junior in High School, my knowledge is very limited asot the processes needed to follow or the materials needed to build a car capable of supporting a passenger.

it would also be helpful to hear from what you people think about the project so far, if its do-able and stuff like that.
I was thinking of having an exterior made of styrofoam, with oneor two layers or epoxy resin for strenght
or an exterior made of aluminum
(if you have an suggestions please say something, it would be of great help, it needs to be something that is cheap, but capable of supporting a person and atleast 80 pounds of materials, i.e. motor is about 50-85 pounds alone)

I was thinking of having a controller that will regulate the current that goes into the engine and thus regulating the speed of the vehicle (though i probably need lots of help in this area, since our knowledge of such systems and how they work is again very limited)

I was thinking of having a metal hydride as a storage system, due to its ability of contraining large amounts of hydrogen, and was researching palladium sponge as an alternative, since it is capable of holding 900 grams of hydrogen per gram of palladium (something that i found trully amazing, its an amazing material, but also has a hefty price, of about $100 per gram, but maybe a gram might be enough, since there is a hydrogen fuel cell bike, of 2 Kw, that has a driving range of 100 miles on 5 OZ of hydrogen gas.)  There is also nanotube, made of graphite, but it would require high pressure and a high temperature in order to extract the hydrogen.  There is also some research that i found dealing with hydrogen and graphite, the way it works is by placing the graphite molecular arrangements in a certain position, such that the hydrogen can go between the graphites in such a manner that it serves as a storage, according to an article that i read it would require pressures of 10 MPa and relatively moderate temepratures in order to extract the hydrogen.  (any information that you may have on storage will be very helpful, again i must extress that price is a factor to be taken into consideration as well as the ability to work with the hydrogen and the storage, such that the hydrogen can be generated on site, well maybe just that we are capable of generating the hydrogen to store it and that it will be release in a manner that it will work)

I may need an inverter in order to satisfy the voltage needed for the motor

Any other information that you may be able to provide, such as an item that i may need but did not put here, or maybe if you are capable of helping my group with the project, or information (probably the most important) will be greatly appreciated.... we need all the help that we can get....

 :drive2:
currently a student attending high school in South Florida, capital of all the hurricanes that come through the US, and the sunshine state.  My interests falls into electrochemistry going to renewable resources of energy, i like hydrogen fuel cells and solar energy

Offline billnotgatez

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Re:need help with fuel cell research
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2006, 11:14:02 PM »
I am curious. Is this school a high school or college that you are doing the project at.

Btw good luck

I hope you have been monitoring the forum since there is at least one other member doing the same thing.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2006, 11:25:35 PM by billnotgatez »

Offline buckminsterfullerene

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Re:need help with fuel cell research
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2006, 12:07:23 AM »
its a high school, MAST Academy located in South Florida, so we have access to lots of sunshine for electrolisys with solar panels...

I have spoken to P-man even before he became a member in chemicalforums.com, unless you are speaking of someone else.  I have been absent from this forum for quite a while so i am not as up to date as i was before.
currently a student attending high school in South Florida, capital of all the hurricanes that come through the US, and the sunshine state.  My interests falls into electrochemistry going to renewable resources of energy, i like hydrogen fuel cells and solar energy

Offline P-man

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Re:need help with fuel cell research
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2006, 01:31:05 PM »
Yes we have been in contact. But I have to say, my project can be considered a fly to what he is doing. He's in high school, I'm in grade eight. I guess it makes sense.

Anyways to answer your questions a bit the hydride storage system sounds great. Palladium is probably the best choice you can make. For sponsering, contact major companies in the field... Plug Power, Ballard Power Systems, United Technologies, as well as auto makers.

Good Luck.
Pierre.

Fight for the protection of our envrionmenta and habitat: http://www.wearesmartpeople.com

Offline billnotgatez

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Re:need help with fuel cell research
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2006, 08:06:21 PM »
P-man  were you able to get any help from Plug Power, Ballard Power Systems, United Technologies, as well as auto makers?

Offline P-man

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Re:need help with fuel cell research
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2006, 04:55:46 PM »
Yeah, a bit. I e-mailed specific people within the company. I tried sending an e-mail to the main e-mail reciever at Ballard and never got a reply, so don't bother. But as I said, I think he could get more help because of the scale of his project.

Pierre.

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Navi00

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Re:need help with fuel cell research
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2006, 06:42:14 PM »
Specify a bit more about your motor :

It sounds like you're talking about an electric motor, and than you're also talking about electrolsys, so I'm a little confused.

Are you building a system which takes water, changes it into H2 and than filtering that through a gasoline engine?


Offline billnotgatez

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Re:need help with fuel cell research
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2006, 05:31:19 AM »
Navi00
I thought that the original poster was talking about fuel cells, which produce electricity, which would eventually be used to drive an electric motor. This is far different mechanism than an internal combustion engine.

Offline P-man

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Re:need help with fuel cell research
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2006, 07:06:42 PM »
From the title of the topic you should get the answer ot your question.
Pierre.

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Offline buckminsterfullerene

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Re:need help with fuel cell research
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2006, 01:22:43 AM »
Yes we have been in contact. But I have to say, my project can be considered a fly to what he is doing. He's in high school, I'm in grade eight. I guess it makes sense.

Anyways to answer your questions a bit the hydride storage system sounds great. Palladium is probably the best choice you can make. For sponsering, contact major companies in the field... Plug Power, Ballard Power Systems, United Technologies, as well as auto makers.

Good Luck.

the problem right now with palladium, its that it is toxic and the price is considerable, and there is very little information on palladium, research is ongoing, but little is known of this element.

thanks for the information, it would definetaly be useful, i will definetaly look into contacting all those companies.  thanx.
currently a student attending high school in South Florida, capital of all the hurricanes that come through the US, and the sunshine state.  My interests falls into electrochemistry going to renewable resources of energy, i like hydrogen fuel cells and solar energy

Offline buckminsterfullerene

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Re:need help with fuel cell research
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2006, 01:27:04 AM »
ohh i have decided to use a 1 Kw motor instead (actually my teacher posed concerns about the power of the engine, saying its a lot of power, she was shocked, and a 1 Kw motor would still be very powerful, that and we allready have the body if we use the 1 Kw engine. ;D  she made a strong argument there) lol
if i can find a fuel cell that powerful, then yeah i will like to incorporate the powerful motor, would be more fun to drive around, but it all boils down to the fuel cell, they are extremely expensive :'(

the help so far has been great...
-daniel garcia
currently a student attending high school in South Florida, capital of all the hurricanes that come through the US, and the sunshine state.  My interests falls into electrochemistry going to renewable resources of energy, i like hydrogen fuel cells and solar energy

Offline P-man

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Re:need help with fuel cell research
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2006, 05:09:28 PM »
I think if you assembled it yourself it could be cheaper. However this might be challenging...
Pierre.

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Offline buckminsterfullerene

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Re:need help with fuel cell research
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2006, 09:51:52 PM »
yeah i was thinking about that.. the problem is that according to one source the assmebly of fuel cells, and the reason why they are so expensive is that to assemble a single fuel cell stack takes almost an entire hand, and has to be -currently- assembled by hand, though there are atleast 4 colleges that are attempting to create a robot to mass produce fuel cell stacks.  This makes making a fuel cell stack into something incredebly challenging, the people that assemble them are experts and have experience, it would probably take me several weeks if not months to assemble it, but i have actually consider it, i have located a place that sells the membranes, and another that sells other fuel cell parts, if anything it seems like i will actually assemble it by hand, and that is why i will hopefully in a couple of days get in contact with a professor from Florida International University that specialises in fuel cells to help me out.
currently a student attending high school in South Florida, capital of all the hurricanes that come through the US, and the sunshine state.  My interests falls into electrochemistry going to renewable resources of energy, i like hydrogen fuel cells and solar energy

Offline buckminsterfullerene

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Re:need help with fuel cell research
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2006, 10:07:43 PM »
hey people i just made a myspace group along with another friend, though my friend is the moderator.  the purpose of the group is to increase awareness to alternative energy through education, it still has the new group smell, it seems like i am the only one involved along with my friend.  If you have myspace, you can join the group at:
http://groups.myspace.com/AlterinativeEnergy
if you do not have a myspace account you can either create it, or you could simply browse the site, but there is not much fun in that.
currently a student attending high school in South Florida, capital of all the hurricanes that come through the US, and the sunshine state.  My interests falls into electrochemistry going to renewable resources of energy, i like hydrogen fuel cells and solar energy

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