[RustyVenture]

Hello everyone, I'm new here. I currently work at a manufacturing company and recently my boss has decided to start up the quality control for some of our liquids and has asked me to perform some tests. One piece of equipment that has been in the lab for a long time is the hp 5890 series II gas chromatograph, nobody currently working there has used it before. I have never used one before, but there is some documentation that completely baffles me and an old procedure that some other guy that used to work there wrote for it. I have nitrogen, hydrogen, and air flowing into the instrument; and assuming the connections haven't been messed with the gases should be flowing into the right ports.

First of all I can't get the darn pilot to light. When I press the ignition button there a glowing piece of wire (mind you I did not have the gases on when I looked inside!). I think I may have the flow rates to high but I'm not sure.

Also it is connected to an old computer thats rockn' some windows 98'  whenever I try to open up the program it says that it cannot "talk" to hp 5890 series II. It probably needs to just be connected to the computer somehow.

And lastly I really have no idea how this thing works except that it separates the components of a sample in a long thing column and analyzes them based on their retention, it looks rugged and I willing to bet that should work just fine.

So for all you experts out there I would greatly appreciate some pointers on how to operate this thing.

[Arkcon]

If you are a production facility, and your analytical results are important, and you intend to stand behind your results, and your company intends to guarantee your results ... you need an instrument service plan.

Get in touch with Hewlett-Packard.  You might find a business card attached to the instrument or the documentation.  You might also find documents regarding a preventive maintenance that was followed, and when it was last done.  They will offer you a service plan, and for a fee, come into your facility, repair, replace, test the system for proper function, calibrate it, and setup your system for your application.  They'll talk to you about upgrades you may need, or want.

Now, point by point:

Hello everyone, I'm new here. I currently work at a manufacturing company and recently my boss has decided to start up the quality control for some of our liquids and has asked me to perform some tests.

Does your boss know what the samples need?  And is he sure the GC is able to give the answers the boss needs?  Does your boss have experience using the GC?  That might help you.

One piece of equipment that has been in the lab for a long time is the hp 5890 series II gas chromatograph, nobody currently working there has used it before. I have never used one before, but there is some documentation that completely baffles me and an old procedure that some other guy that used to work there wrote for it.

I understand the the manual may be daunting.  You might want to look at a basic chemistry text on the topic, so you can understand the manual better.  Its a little ... disappointing ... that anyone, you, your company or your boss expects to just 'flip a switch' on chromatographic instrumentation and get a useful answer.  Or not an incorrect answer.  Or any answer.  Or not to break the thing.  Or not break the thing and hurt someone.

I have nitrogen, hydrogen, and air flowing into the instrument; and assuming the connections haven't been messed with the gases should be flowing into the right ports.

Assume.  Hydrogen flow.  Not messed with.  Uh ... no.  Don't assume that.  Take some time to be extra sure.

First of all I can't get the darn pilot to light. When I press the ignition button there a glowing piece of wire (mind you I did not have the gases on when I looked inside!). I think I may have the flow rates to high but I'm not sure.

OK.  Now you've entered the region of jargon and manufacturer's terms for things in their instrument.  I don't have one of that model of instrument here at my home.  And the same model may have different attachments depending on the setup wanted.  The traditional thermal conductivity detector uses glowing wires to detect orgainic molecules in the nitrogen or helium gas stream by passing the column effluent over glowing wire.  So it may be working fine.  But it isn't used with hydrogen gas.  The flame ionization detector does use hydrogen as a fuel.  But it may need adjustment, repair, or replacement.

Also it is connected to an old computer thats rockn' some windows 98'  whenever I try to open up the program it says that it cannot "talk" to hp 5890 series II. It probably needs to just be connected to the computer somehow.

Now, this is funny.  You say that the gas connections "probably" haven't been touched.  But somehow, the connection between the computer and the instrument clearly has been.  Do you still want to play with hydrogen?  The service guy can help you with the computer connection.  The old version of the operating system may work just fine.  At least for a while, until you want to network the data, or the instrument control.

And lastly I really have no idea how this thing works except that it separates the components of a sample in a long thing column and analyzes them based on their retention, it looks rugged and I willing to bet that should work just fine.

I'm pretty glad to hear you say this right here.  You seem to have a good attitude, even though I've mentioned some caveats here you should pay attention to.  You could be well on your way to becoming the "go-to" guy for these sorts of technical problems at your facility, which is good for filling out your resume.  If the instrument has been idle for a wile, the column may need replacement, however.

So for all you experts out there I would greatly appreciate some pointers on how to operate this thing.

You do need to talk to a service guy, at least once.  You boss may not want to spend this money (I can only guess about your company) but it is important.  And stick with the service technician.  Ask them everything they're doing, question them about tips and tricks, and know what the steps are that they're performing.  Usually, people only call the service tech to say, "You people and your systems suck, just fix the damn thing" -- so service techs are pretty glad to talk to people.  (They get a chance to advertise add-ons and marked up consumables, which makes them look good to their boss if you buy them.)

[Borek]

Could be W98 is THE version you want to use.

At least don't assume you need a newer version till you check it. There are many possible and subtle compatibility problems which can make later version of Windows incompatible with the software that runs with your GC.

Sometimes it even means using an old FDD

http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=63361.0

[STraxler]

Very good but old GC, HP split off their analytical div sometime ago, it is now called Agilent.

I use a 5890 from time to time, I get that error if the autosampler is off. Does your GC have an autosampler?

[Stepan]

I have a similar instrument. Gives outstanding performance. The manuals are available online. If you are not comfortable to do it your self, hire somebody to do basic maintenance on-site, while he will be working, you will learn how to work with instruments.

[Stepan]

I just want to add, that the Instrument is user friendly. Read user manual, and follow step by step, instructions, and you will be fine. The maintenance program is good if you can spend $200/hour for Agilent rep, and for your project you are looking at 2 days minimum with extra expenses. Unless you try to fix the instrument, you will never learn it. Once you learned it, it will perform much better. The only danger is to connect Hydrogen and Air together, or have Hydrogen leak, but this is easy to check even before you opened the cylinder. The rest is fool proof.

[JGK]

Unfortunately,

Contacting Agilent will be of no help as they stopped supporting the 5890 series over a decade ago. However, it is a testament to their build quality that there are still so many in operation and third party parts are still widely available.

To get the flame to light with the gases on what should happen is that the button should cause the wire igniter to glow and reduce the air flow. You should hear a "pop" as the flame ignites and if you hold a metal spatula over the FID port you should see condensation form on it.

if you can't get ignition, you could try manually adjusting the air (as long as you can get it back to the correct level after ignition).

[Corribus]

Contacting Agilent will be of no help as they stopped supporting the 5890 series over a decade ago. However, it is a testament to their build quality that there are still so many in operation and third party parts are still widely available.

I've contacted instrument manufacturers before for instruments that were "no longer being supported" and while they probably won't come out and service it, sometimes they'll still be willing to help over the phone if they can find a service engineer familiar with the model.  It never hurts to try. 

[tlahren]

Rusty,
I agree that Agilent will not offer service on-site.  They are trying to get rid of old HP 5890s by frequently offering trades-ins for new systems.  We recently took advantage of this.  The old 5890s are hard to kill.  There are a number of after market parts still available and being manufactured for this instrument: www.restek.com is one that comes to mind.  There are also many 3rd party service companies that offer service contracts for these instruments and many others as Agilent/HP no longer support them.  Where are you located?  Maybe I can help find a good service company in that area (if US based).  If you find a service engineer who will come out and start it up you can learn a lot just from watching them and taking notes/asking questions.  I have learned a lot from these guys.  Enough to where I feel comfortable operating and working on them myself with out a service contract.  We only use contracts now for more complicated instruments and newer instruments.

Best of luck to you.

Ty