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Offline stoic_head

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Qualitative analysis lab help?
« on: May 08, 2013, 11:55:47 PM »
So for my lab, I'm given:

Sodium acetate
Sodium chloride
Sodium hydrogen carbonate
Sodium carbonate

and for the reagents, 1M HCl, 1M NaOH, and I2

Any ideas on how I could identify them? Any help is appreciated  :)

Offline Borek

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Re: Qualitative analysis lab help?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2013, 03:26:55 AM »
Tricky. Unless I am missing something I am not convinced it is doable.

But at least partial determination is possible.

Can you think of any reactions taking place when you mix unknowns with the reagents?
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Offline cobrasniper555

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Re: Qualitative analysis lab help?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2013, 04:18:35 AM »
So for my lab, I'm given:

Sodium acetate
Sodium chloride
Sodium hydrogen carbonate
Sodium carbonate

and for the reagents, 1M HCl, 1M NaOH, and I2

Any ideas on how I could identify them? Any help is appreciated  :)
Sodium hydrogen carbonate (sodium bicarbonate) would neutralize 1M HCl. So you would see effervescence (fizzing) in that reaction. That's about all I got for this question. I feel like there's some information missing.

Offline stoic_head

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Re: Qualitative analysis lab help?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2013, 12:24:24 PM »
Here's some more info:
Our teacher is giving us pure samples of each compound. And Benedicts reagent
We can also do flame tests and conductivity tests but I'm pretty sure all those compounds would burn orange because of the sodium :/
That's all the information I'm given unfortunately.

Offline stoic_head

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Re: Qualitative analysis lab help?
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2013, 12:49:08 PM »
So we just formally started the lab on Friday and he gave us the "whole" list of compounds. The few sodiums listed before were just a portion  :-[.
Here's the revised, complete list:
1. Sodium acetate 2. Sodium chloride
3. Soidum hydrogen carbonate 4. Sodium carbonate
5. Lithium chloride 6. Potassium chloride
7. Calcium nitrate 8. Iron (III) nitrate
9. Nickel nitrate 10. calcium sulfate
11. Calcium carbonate 12. cornstartch
13. glucose 14. sucrose
15. magnesium sulfate 16. boric acid
17. Ammonium chloride 18. Nickel sulfate

So I think I might start of with a water solubility test, which leaves me with the calciums (calcium sulfate and calcium carbonate). The nickels (nickel sulfate and nickel nitrate) would be easily identified because of the flame colors. I have no clue on how to identify between glucose and sucrose and prove a compound is cornstarch since just visual proof isn't enough (cornstarch+water). Ideas on what to do next?

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Qualitative analysis lab help?
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2013, 01:17:59 PM »
Yes.  I was wondering what the Benedict's solution was for, until you gave use the complete list.  What do you know about how that reagent works?
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline stoic_head

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Re: Qualitative analysis lab help?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2013, 01:35:12 PM »
I know that benedicts solution helps you see if sugars are present. But is there a way to use it to differentiate between sucrose and glucose?
And for all the compounds, we are given limited amounts so I cant really do density calculations.

Offline Borek

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Re: Qualitative analysis lab help?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2013, 02:02:29 PM »
What is the lab? You got all substances and you have to identify each one, or you got only some from the list and you have to identify them using some additional reagents?
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Offline Arkcon

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Re: Qualitative analysis lab help?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2013, 02:41:48 PM »
I know that benedicts solution helps you see if sugars are present.

Look it up, that's not exactly what it does.

Quote
But is there a way to use it to differentiate between sucrose and glucose?

Yes
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline stoic_head

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Re: Qualitative analysis lab help?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2013, 03:02:58 PM »
What is the lab? You got all substances and you have to identify each one, or you got only some from the list and you have to identify them using some additional reagents?
I have all the substances, and I can use indentified subtances and the reagents to identify the unknowns.

Offline Borek

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Re: Qualitative analysis lab help?
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2013, 04:32:33 PM »
First things first - some of the substance on the list will be obvious because of the color.

Some of the other ones will react in an obvious way with a strong acid or base.

That should help you already identify some of the substances, or at least narrow their identity to just a few from the list.
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Offline kriggy

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Re: Qualitative analysis lab help?
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2013, 04:47:26 PM »
First things first - some of the substance on the list will be obvious because of the color.

Some of the other ones will react in an obvious way with a strong acid or base.

That should help you already identify some of the substances, or at least narrow their identity to just a few from the list.

Agree absolutely.
Few more tips:
Flame test could be tricky because even slight amounts of sodium will colour the flame yellow so be sure to clean the Pt wire before every test.
Some of the ions (Cl- and NH4+) could be indentified by characteristic smell.
pH mesurments of each sample could help too.
BTW corstarch could be indetified by I2 easily

Offline stoic_head

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Re: Qualitative analysis lab help?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2013, 06:09:11 PM »
Thanks for all the tips and *delete me* I will post my latest flowchart once I get into the lab again

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