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Topic: Energy vs Enthalpy  (Read 3431 times)

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Offline offlinedoctor

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Energy vs Enthalpy
« on: May 25, 2013, 07:28:57 AM »
I think my understanding of enthalpy vs energy is rather poor as I get these types of questions consistently wrong.

C2H2 + 5/2O2 -> 2CO2 + H2O ΔH= -1299.5kJ.

Determine ΔU at 25°, constant pressure.

1) this h been nagging me, but shouldn't enthalpy be in energy per mol??

2) my logic was, if it was at constant pressure it would be conditions similar to open containers, so I thought, the energy lost would just be equal to enthalpy. The answer seemed to indicate that its actually -1298.3, how is it possible?

Offline Borek

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Re: Energy vs Enthalpy
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2013, 07:49:12 AM »
1) this h been nagging me, but shouldn't enthalpy be in energy per mol??

It is probably "per reaction as written" - so per mole of C2H2 burnt, or per mole of H2O produced, or per two moles of CO2 produced.

Quote
2) my logic was, if it was at constant pressure it would be conditions similar to open containers, so I thought, the energy lost would just be equal to enthalpy. The answer seemed to indicate that its actually -1298.3, how is it possible?


What is the dependence between ΔU and ΔH? What is the volume before and after the reaction?
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Offline offlinedoctor

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Re: Energy vs Enthalpy
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2013, 08:17:45 AM »
Volume before and after the reaction, wouldn't it be unchanged, so ΔV would be zero hence, Energy would equal Enthalpy?

Offline Borek

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Re: Energy vs Enthalpy
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2013, 09:48:09 AM »
What is volume before the reaction, what is volume after the reaction?

You can assume STP.
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Offline offlinedoctor

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Re: Energy vs Enthalpy
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2013, 07:20:44 PM »
The question makes no mention of volume changes.  :-[

Offline Corribus

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Re: Energy vs Enthalpy
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2013, 08:45:26 PM »
Your assumption that ΔH is equal to ΔU is a great approximation in most cases involving condensed phases, because usually the volume change is small (and hence the work is small) compared to the amount of energy liberated/consumed by bond formation and breaking.  You can see the difference here between ΔH andΔU is small as well but not really negligible.  This is because with gasses the volume changes are typically a lot greater on a per mole basis.

As to what the volume change is, as Borek suggested you can determine the approximate volumes of reactants and starting materials by assuming everything is carried out at STP.  (Hint: what is the molar volume of an ideal gas at STP?)
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Offline offlinedoctor

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Re: Energy vs Enthalpy
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 12:50:44 AM »
I figured it out! Is this the right assumptions?

I) the change in mole is from 3.5 to 3, so some work will be done.

Ii)
using n=V/Vm, the total volume from the left hand side side is, 78.4L, total volume on right hand side is, 67.2L.
So volume change is 11.2L,
Multify by 101 to convert to joules, divide by 1000 for kJ,
Gives 1.13kJ,

So E=H-W
E=-1299.5+1.13 (add, as the work goes 'into' the system.

Offline Corribus

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Re: Energy vs Enthalpy
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 09:10:29 AM »
Yes that looks right to me.
What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?  - Richard P. Feynman

Offline MətHylFrÆtH

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Re: Energy vs Enthalpy
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2013, 07:25:33 PM »
I thought that

Δh=Δu + Pv

and for for ideal gases

Δh = Δu + RT

for ideal liquids and solids:

Δh ≈ Δu




Offline Corribus

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Re: Energy vs Enthalpy
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 10:35:15 PM »
Yes.
What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?  - Richard P. Feynman

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