[JUSTASKING]

The outer atmosphere of Saturn contains 96.3% molecular hydrogen and 3.25% helium

Trace amounts of ammonia, acetylene, ethane, propane, phosphine and methane have been detected in Saturn's atmosphere.[35][36][37] The upper clouds are composed of ammonia crystals, while the lower level clouds appear to consist of either ammonium hydrosulfide (NH4SH) or water.[38] Ultraviolet radiation from the Sun causes methane photolysis in the upper atmosphere, leading to a series of hydrocarbon chemical reactions with the resulting products being carried downward by eddies and diffusion. This photochemical cycle is modulated by Saturn's annual seasonal cycle
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------courtesy----wikipedia
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SO THE QUESTION STANDS CAN WE HARVEST THE HYDROGEN IN THE ATMOSPHERE OF SATURN???
RESPOND PLEASE

[JUSTASKING]

i have a project on how to harvest hydrogen to use in fuel cells in space ships when it is required to float in space....well H₂O is a good energy source(used in fuel cells) and well my guess is Jupiter or Saturn...i eliminated Jupiter because of it's emminent magnetic strength and corrosive material...then saturn comes and guesss....thats where my brain stucks....!!!....how to harvest Saturns atmospheric gases and use it's hydrogen....


is it possible that a space capsule(a sort of container which can store liquid hydrogen) be sent from the main shuttle to it's atmosphere.....which will absorp the gases; seperate hydrogen from the same.... and come pack to the main body with liquid hydrogen in containers that will fuel the functions of the space shuttle??
 



someone please please please please please please please please REPLY

[curiouscat]

Absolutely. Why not?

Just have to get that pesky transportation problem out of the way. Which shouldn't be too hard since that 96 odd percent of H₂ can by itself serve as great (and free) fuel. At least for the return trip.

The great thing about an H₂ powered rocket is that we don't have to cart around water for the round trip (I'm assuming we have a manned transport vessel). The combustion reaction itself will generate ample water vapor which we can easily condense given a large enough condensing coil. On the plus side most of the journey is through space at an ambient temperature of -270 K C or so, and hence the driving force for the heat exchanger coils is ample.

As an aside, the economics of the harvesting scheme could work out better if provision is made to also bring back some of the other gases to earth. Acetylene, ethane etc. might command a good price and especially as fossil fuels get scarce one must turn to other options.

I wouldn't harvest the phosphine though: the risk of a leakage and toxicity hazard to the crew is too large.

PS. One of the expensive parts of a conventional, terrestrial, H₂ plant is the purification section. In this context the other gases on Saturn like ammonia, acetylene, ethane, propane, phosphine etc. would normally be a problem to get rid off, especially for applications that demand high purity.

One idea may be to have a small purification section on the spacecraft itself, since the extreme cold of space is a valuable resource. At about -200 C (which should be easy to achieve knowing space is itself at about 1K ) most of the impurities would have condensed whereas the hydrogen being still gaseous can be easily separated.

[JUSTASKING]

thanks....but i was not thinking of bringing it back to earth .
there will be a space ship to bring it back to...that will be suspended in space

[curiouscat]

thanks....but i was not thinking of bringing it back to earth .
there will be a space ship to bring it back to...that will be suspended in space

Oh ok. Do you expect to sell it? What other markets did you have in mind.

Sorry if I misread your idea, but it definitely seems interesting.

A fairly long pipeline might be another option to think about. I don't see any fundamental Physics limitations though as a practical structural engineering problem it sounds quite challenging. But Civil Engineering has surmounted bigger problems in the past. All it needs is the will and a big budget.

Also, looking at the pace at which nanotechnology is advancing lately (or supposed to be, at least), finding a novel material with the right sort of material properties for an interplanetary pipeline may not be entirely impossible. We just have to be prepared to think outside the box a little.

Just my 2 cents. 

[curiouscat]

If you did choose the spacecraft option, flying out empty on the way out does seem a tad wasteful. If we could find some suitable cargo that would defray half the cost. I don't know what though.

Perhaps something that can be made to undergo  a useful reaction  by the ample UV flux incident on Saturn and then the product could be brought back. Hopefully we can choose some reaction where the moles decrease drastically and then storage space is not a huge concern.

[curiouscat]

i eliminated Jupiter because of it's emminent magnetic strength and corrosive material.

Why? You could always build the spacecraft from a non-magnetic alloy.

i have a project on how to harvest hydrogen to use in fuel cells in space ships when it is required to float in space

Do you plan to use the H₂ as an energy source or merely for buoyancy for the spacecraft to float?

is it possible that a space capsule(a sort of container which can store liquid hydrogen) be sent from the main shuttle to it's atmosphere...

This is a photo of one possible capsule. Linde used to store terrestrial liquid hydrogen in it. It is somewhat heavy and the design is dated but you may be able to modify it to suit your application.

[Borek]

The great thing about an H₂ powered rocket is that we don't have to cart around water for the round trip (I'm assuming we have a manned transport vessel).

And your source of oxygen is... ?

[curiouscat]

The great thing about an H₂ powered rocket is that we don't have to cart around water for the round trip (I'm assuming we have a manned transport vessel).

And your source of oxygen is... ?

Yes, that could be problematic. Maybe we do need to cart our own oxygen. Bummer. 

Unless we could take a little bit of radioactive material and fashion a set of transmutations that could generate O from either one or more of N, H, C, P and S that seem amply available in the saturnine atmosphere.

PS. Sorry, I did not notice this was on the High School list else I'd have toned down my sugesstions a notch. Ah well. Too late.

[JUSTASKING]

This is a photo of one possible capsule. Linde used to store terrestrial liquid hydrogen in it. It is somewhat heavy and the design is dated but you may be able to modify it to suit your application.

yes thats what i had in mind..

[JUSTASKING]

well i was thinking of supplementing a huge space shuttle...(suppose a space settlement)..which will float in space somewhere in the vicinity of the satanic orbit....it will release a space capsule (more of a workstation) that will hang in the atmosphere of saturn (where there are abundancies of H₂O)
it will have a processing unit that will absorb the h₂o, purify it(hm...i guess palladium will do), liqify it and store it.....from the storage the liquid h₂o will be supplied to another space capsule within it that will use the same to attain escape velocity.....and will be guided back to the main space shuttle once in space.....the main shuttle will use the liquid h₂o to run generators to produce electricity and for other jobs that call for energy...
possible?

[curiouscat]

well i was thinking of supplementing a huge space shuttle...(suppose a space settlement)..which will float in space somewhere in the vicinity of the satanic orbit....it will release a space capsule (more of a workstation) that will hang in the atmosphere of saturn (where there are abundancies of H₂O)
it will have a processing unit that will absorb the h₂o, purify it(hm...i guess palladium will do), liqify it and store it.....from the storage the liquid h₂o will be supplied to another space capsule within it that will use the same to attain escape velocity.....and will be guided back to the main space shuttle once in space.....the main shuttle will use the liquid h₂o to run generators to produce electricity and for other jobs that call for energy...
possible?

Could be possible. Devil's in the details.

Sorry, I'm running out of ideas.

[JUSTASKING]

well i have an idea....a rough sketch by me ------- will work: curiouscat


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=525097714219799&set=a.525097684219802.1073741827.100001587267086&type=3&theater
1) the opening port- The opening port is a locked door like system that opens up to let the gases come in
2) Port Opening- The port opening opens up to a pipe (after the opening port has closed) that carries all the gases inhaled by the port to the palladium dome
3)palladium- The palladium is a good absorber of h₂ gas which release the pure h₂ after heating
4)Heating Coils- so theres where the heating coils come in....it will heat the palladium once the entry port doors are locked and the pure h₂ port is opened..
5)Condensors- the pipelines carry the pure h₂ to the condensors (which use a technology similar to air conditioners that liquify the h₂ gas
6)liquid h₂ storage- it will store the liquid h₂ after being condensed (using a tech similar to the picture curiuouscat has supplied above)
7)space container capsule- it will carry the liquid h₂ to the main shuttle..
8>generator- this generator uses a part of the harvested h₂ to run the energy requiring activities like the heating coil of this workstation

[JUSTASKING]

is the working of linde somewhat like this

[curiouscat]

is the working of linde somewhat like this

Could be. But I doubt they designed it for extraterrestrial use.