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Topic: graphite ring conformation?  (Read 8125 times)

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Offline iScience

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graphite ring conformation?
« on: October 12, 2013, 02:41:53 AM »
what ring conformation is graphite in? chair i'm guessing? is it any different at the ends of the layers?

Offline Archer

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2013, 02:55:00 AM »
Can you draw graphite for us, does it resemble a polycyclohexane structure?
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Offline iScience

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2013, 03:11:17 AM »
yes

http://www.nano-enhanced-wholesale-technologies.com/faq/carbon-forms.htm

so i'm guessing that's a yes that they are chairs?

Offline Archer

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2013, 03:38:51 AM »
Do they look like chairs in your link? What is the empiricle formula for graphite?

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Offline magician4

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2013, 07:59:51 AM »
additional hint:

take a look at the pictures in your link: graphite is "many layers of graphene, staggered"


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Offline orgopete

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2013, 09:45:12 AM »
I think the poster was asking about the difference between "arm-chair" and "zig-zag" graphene. After visiting the Wikipedia link, I wonder this also.
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Offline Enthalpy

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2013, 09:55:34 AM »
I think the poster was asking about the difference between "arm-chair" and "zig-zag" graphene. After visiting the Wikipedia link, I wonder this also.
Looks like it's the same material with a different orientation. It makes a difference at a ribbon, not at a sheet.

Offline magician4

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2013, 10:20:16 AM »
Quote
I think the poster was asking about the difference between "arm-chair" and "zig-zag" graphene.
that's not my understanding of the original question: he was asking about graphite, not graphene

to explain the structure, I offered to take a look at graphene from his own very link , where garphene is described as follows:

Quote
. one atom thick flat layer of hexagonal carbon rings.
. looks like a honeycomb or chicken wire in structure
(from: original link by author; additional accentuation in bold by me)


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Offline iScience

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2013, 12:48:57 PM »
Quote
I think the poster was asking about the difference between "arm-chair" and "zig-zag" graphene. After visiting the Wikipedia link, I wonder this also.

actually this was more along the lines of what i was talking about (sorry i guess i wasn't clear); though i don't know what 'arm chair' is; i just learned it as the 'chair conformation'. to clarify my question, i wanted to know what the cyclohexane ring conformations were in each graphene sheet OF graphite.

also, unless you're dealing with an hopg, i heard that natural graphite is a mess; that it's not really clean layers and there are kinks and bumps all over the graphite structure. is this true?

Offline magician4

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2013, 01:13:28 PM »
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i wanted to know what the cyclohexane ring conformations were in each graphene sheet OF graphite.
its the same as in naphthalene, anthracene, benzyo[a]pyrene , (...), i.e. condensed aromats in general: it's planar (but very huge at that)

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(...)i heard that natural graphite is a mess; that it's not really clean layers and there are kinks and bumps all over the graphite structure. is this true?
as with almost all crystalline substances dealing with like 1020 atoms and more: yes, there every once in a while will occur some errors

it is very very very difficult to have really good single crystalline structures at large scale, unless you intentionally make them, and this is true for graphite, also


regards

Ingo
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Offline iScience

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2013, 01:19:01 PM »
stupid question; but just to be certain..     ....poly[trans-decalin] conformation right?

Offline magician4

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2013, 03:06:08 PM »
Quote
stupid question; but just to be certain..     ....poly[trans-decalin] conformation right?
no , not right

... and the stupid question I'm just asking myself is, whether you at least bother with reading the what we're answering here, let alone trying to understand it

its FLAT!  like glassplates stapeled above each other!
... and only if you look at a single plane from top, you'll see that the carbon atoms (that ALL lie in the plane: no ups and downs here whatsoever) will form perfect hexagons


Ingo


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Offline iScience

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2013, 07:23:22 PM »
if that's so, then what determines in what direction the hydrogens are oriented? or is it random (ie 50% oriented up 50% oriented down)? Also, how is it planar? my chem professor told me that chairs were the most stable conformation; does pi stacking have anything to do with pulling each adjacent layer into the planar shape?

graphene on google images shows up as planar. if this is true, what gives the sheet a planar conformation instead of giving it a series of the 'more stable' chair conformation?

Offline magician4

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2013, 07:52:33 PM »
Quote
if that's so, then what determines in what direction the hydrogens are oriented? (...)


hydrogens? what hydrogens? in GRAPHITE ?


I'm outa here, before I start violating forum rules..
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Offline iScience

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Re: graphite ring conformation?
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2013, 01:04:46 AM »
i thought graphite was just layers of graphene and i thought graphene was just a series of cyclohexanes (ie no double bonds). if that's the case each carbon is only bonded to 3 other carbons, where's the fourth bond?

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