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Topic: Stereoisomers of cefalotin  (Read 8528 times)

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Offline Rutherford

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Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« on: February 20, 2014, 01:30:46 PM »
How many stereoisomers of cefalotin exist?
I'd say 4: 2*2 for stereocenters.
But do the two nitrogen count as stereocenters?

Offline discodermolide

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 01:34:14 PM »
4 unless I am missing something!
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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 01:38:44 PM »
I am not sure about the nitrogen atoms, they are tetrahedrons and have three different substitutes + one electron pair. Is the isomerization between R and S slow enough so they can be regarded as different compound, I don't know.

Offline AlphaScent

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 01:49:45 PM »
Since we are discussing stereo chemistry.

How many isomers are there of this compound?  I think there are six.  3 stereo centers.  So six isomers.  Am I wrong?

Am I missing something with the epoxide?
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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 01:55:05 PM »
I'd go with six.

Offline discodermolide

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 01:55:21 PM »
I see 6, I don't think you are missing anything.
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Offline AlphaScent

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 02:02:43 PM »
Ok cool.  I was doubting myself for some reason.

Also, when it comes to nitrogen being considered a stereocenter, what are the conditions for it to be one?  I know in most biological compounds only carbon is considered.  When do you consider nitrogen?
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Offline discodermolide

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2014, 02:06:45 PM »
Usually the inversion of an amine is very fast. Put some really bulky groups on it and you can slow it down so that you can see the isomers in the NMR time scale. It's a bit like chairs interconverting, at low temp you see axial and equatorial protons at RT you just see one big signal in the NMR.
But yes you can have chiral nitrogen atoms.
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Offline discodermolide

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2014, 02:17:27 PM »
Think about phosphines, now they can be chiral!
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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2014, 02:24:27 PM »
Here, the nitrogens' environment seems very rigid, so maybe nitrogen should be considered as a stereocenter.

Offline sjb

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2014, 02:27:55 PM »
I see 6, I don't think you are missing anything.

8, surely?

Offline discodermolide

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2014, 02:31:24 PM »
Yes, getting blind in my old age. Or my screen needs cleaning:)
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Offline AlphaScent

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2014, 02:52:25 PM »
I know other elements can be chiral centers.  This is a topic I am ill equipped to talk about though.  Gonna put my nose into some information.

@sjb

You think 8 for my compound??  Please explain further.
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Offline zsinger

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2014, 03:04:24 PM »
When I learned it (and what I accepted as fact?!?) was that Nitrogens rapidly interconvert between R and S, therefore giving them chirality.  As was mentioned, tertiary nitrogens might have a bigger energy barrier to rotation, however I am somewhat certain that it is, in fact, always, chiral.  Unless, of course, it is a Carbon DB Nitrogen.  Then no free rotation….and no stereo center :).
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Offline Dan

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Re: Stereoisomers of cefalotin
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2014, 03:13:55 PM »
You think 8 for my compound??  Please explain further.

2n, not 2n.

Try writing them all out:

RRR
RRS
etc. etc.
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