[pewpewlaser]

Hello all,

I remember doing an experiment using Formic Acid with a Sulfuric Acid catalyst in school and wanted to analyze the reaction more, experiment was similar to:

http://mattson.creighton.edu/CO/


HCOOH (l)  --(hot concentrated H₂SO₄--> H₂O (l) + CO(g)


First question, how do we figure out how much HCOOH and H2SO4 to produce X amount of CO?  In the example it says 8 drops of HCOOH and H₂SO₄ will create 100ml of CO, how do we calculate something like that?

Second question, how do we determine what temperature the catalyst needs to be to promote the quickest reaction?

Any books or courses you recommend that will help aid me?  Thanks!

[Hunter2]

Here the sulfuric acid is not a catalyst as it normally works.. The high concentration of sulfuric adsorbs easily water and this is eliminated out of the formic acid. Carbon oxide is left.
The sulfuric acid gets diluted through this process and the reaction will stop. At least you need more and more fresh acid dot get it run continuously.

To calculate you have to know the concentration. 8 drops means nothing. How many ml or g HCOOH do you have. With this information you can get the moles of the acid and also the moles of the CO. With the ideal gas equation you can calculate the volume.

[pewpewlaser]

Here the sulfuric acid is not a catalyst as it normally works.. The high concentration of sulfuric adsorbs easily water and this is eliminated out of the formic acid. Carbon oxide is left.
The sulfuric acid gets diluted through this process and the reaction will stop. At least you need more and more fresh acid dot get it run continuously.

To calculate you have to know the concentration. 8 drops means nothing. How many ml or g HCOOH do you have. With this information you can get the moles of the acid and also the moles of the CO. With the ideal gas equation you can calculate the volume.

Thanks Hunter2,

So would the reaction be more like:
H₂SO₄ + HCOOH  CO + H₂SO₄*H₂O ?

So lets see if I get this right..

1mol H₂SO₄ (98.079g/mol) (1ml/1.840g) = 53.304 mL H₂SO₄

1mol HCOOH (46.02538g/mol) (1ml/1.220g) = 37.726 mlL HCOOH

1mol CO (28.01g/mol) (1m^3/1150g) = .0243565 m^3 CO

Assuming if I use 53.304ml H2SO4 and 37.726ml HCOOH, I will get .0243565 m^3 CO?

Or will I produce much less CO since the H2SO4 is getting diluted, which means I need more than 53.304mL to fully react the formic acid.

Thanks!

[sjb]

What state of matter is carbon monoxide in under your conditions? Check your units

[pewpewlaser]

What state of matter is carbon monoxide in under your conditions? Check your units

I as assuming CO (gas), Gas density (1.013 bar and 15 °C (59 °F)) : 1.1849 kg/m3 per http://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/Encyclopedia.asp?GasID=45

So 1mol CO(gas) (28.01g/mol) (m3/1184.9g) = .02364m^3

Not sure where I got 1150g/m^3 from, maybe a typo from 1.250 kg/m3 at 0 °C, 1 atm.

Am I going about this correctly?

Again,
I'm not sure if I will be produce much less CO since the H2SO4 is getting diluted.