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Topic: Radical addition scheme  (Read 8934 times)

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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Radical addition scheme
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2014, 07:13:54 AM »
One nitrogen in the nitrogen molecule would have 2- charge.

Offline discodermolide

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Re: Radical addition scheme
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2014, 08:52:58 AM »
you got the structure, you figure out the charges pls
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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Radical addition scheme
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2014, 09:18:25 AM »
In the path you wrote. the nitrogen doesn't lose it's negative charge, so in the formed nitrogen molecule one nitrogen would be negative.

Offline discodermolide

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Re: Radical addition scheme
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2014, 09:27:42 AM »
Then in the drawing I forgot to change it.
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Offline orgopete

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Re: Radical addition scheme
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2014, 11:33:41 AM »
I didn't know this right off, so I had to do some searching for some of the steps. I suggest you write out every single step. Then it might be helpful to draw the alternate form of the azide. I think the cyclization step may look different and the radical mediator mechanism will change. I don't think there is any Me3SiH forming.
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Offline discodermolide

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Re: Radical addition scheme
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2014, 12:07:01 PM »
Thanks orgopete,
How do you see this proceeding?. There is a Google books reference to domino reactions, this is in there.
sorry for the long link
http://books.google.ch/books?id=HfdEud1Qvq0C&pg=PA229&lpg=PA229&dq=horsfiline+synthesis&source=bl&ots=7PPPMvUUwd&sig=VRI_o85y_Wm4GbOC1bXi5JE-p6c&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EtsJU-2mIOL_ygO33oHACw&ved=0CFwQ6AEwCjgK#v=onepage&q=horsfiline%20synthesis&f=false

I invoked the R3SiH to provide a source of the H radical after (during) the nitrogen elimination. So you end up with a radical initiator for the next reaction.
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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Radical addition scheme
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2014, 12:39:14 PM »
I got this:

Offline discodermolide

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Re: Radical addition scheme
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2014, 12:51:35 PM »
That's OK, but where does the H radical come from?
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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Radical addition scheme
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2014, 02:17:27 PM »
They gave above the reaction arrow: +H+ and -N2, although I think that it is a mistake and that it should be radical hydrogen.

Offline discodermolide

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Re: Radical addition scheme
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2014, 02:31:21 PM »
I think it comes from the silane.
Let's see if orgopete has a different source.
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Offline orgopete

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Re: Radical addition scheme
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2014, 08:19:51 PM »
In the scheme, it was written as "+H+". Since the literature was using TTMSS, it showed a TMS on the nitrogen. This propagated the radical for cleaving the iodine and initiating the reaction. So I presume protonation was to cleave the silyl group. I didn't see any other hydrogen source. If a tin hydride were used, that would be different.
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