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Topic: Paradoxes in Chemistry  (Read 6676 times)

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Lois

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Paradoxes in Chemistry
« on: May 20, 2014, 08:05:56 PM »

I explore various paradoxes. I am interested in what paradoxes are in chemistry? I have the opportunity to solve paradoxes of using AI.

Lois

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Offline curiouscat

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Re: Paradoxes in Chemistry
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2014, 01:21:12 PM »

 I have the opportunity to solve paradoxes of using AI.


The most intriguing sentence I read this week. Pray elaborate.

Offline Borek

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Re: Paradoxes in Chemistry
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2014, 02:14:03 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levinthal%27s_paradox

Straw man. Proteins don't fold by sampling all possible configurations, they fold at the same time they are produced. Finding minimal energy conformation for tripeptide or tetrapeptide is instant, then the protein forms around what was already present. Sure, it is only a simplification, but good enough to show why there is no paradox.
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Offline curiouscat

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Re: Paradoxes in Chemistry
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2014, 04:42:52 PM »


Straw man. Proteins don't fold by sampling all possible configurations, they fold at the same time they are produced. Finding minimal energy conformation for tripeptide or tetrapeptide is instant, then the protein forms around what was already present. Sure, it is only a simplification, but good enough to show why there is no paradox.

Interesting argument. But is it always true that the min. energy config for a large protein has each sub-unit (at least each sub unit on the typical build pathway seen in nature) also in a minimal energy config, by itself?

I doubt it.

Offline Corribus

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Re: Paradoxes in Chemistry
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2014, 05:43:44 PM »
I find Levinthal's so-called paradox to be essentially identical to the Junkyard tornado arguments put forth by Creationists as evidence against Natural Selection. I.e., neither one has much merit and both are based on some very bad assumptions about random event sampling.

I hope I didn't just open a can of worms.
What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?  - Richard P. Feynman

Offline Borek

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Re: Paradoxes in Chemistry
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2014, 06:01:24 PM »
Interesting argument. But is it always true that the min. energy config for a large protein has each sub-unit (at least each sub unit on the typical build pathway seen in nature) also in a minimal energy config, by itself?

It doesn't have to. With each added aminoacid peptide is free to reach a new conformation, and the peptide can get locally strained. But each time it doesn't start from nowhere, it starts from the previous conformation, so the number of possible conformations to test in each step is not that large.
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Offline Borek

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Re: Paradoxes in Chemistry
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2014, 06:02:47 PM »
I find Levinthal's so-called paradox to be essentially identical to the Junkyard tornado arguments

That was exactly my thought :)
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Lois

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Re: Paradoxes in Chemistry
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2014, 07:36:47 PM »
Here's how this paradox decided my AI

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Offline Borek

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Re: Paradoxes in Chemistry
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2014, 02:32:29 AM »
This is word salad. Looks like LSD, not AI.
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Offline curiouscat

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Re: Paradoxes in Chemistry
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2014, 05:36:25 AM »
This is word salad. Looks like LSD, not AI.

Or, Lois is the AI? What's the chance we've been responding to a script robot?

Lois

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Re: Paradoxes in Chemistry
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2014, 12:32:42 PM »
I find Levinthal's so-called paradox to be essentially identical to the Junkyard tornado arguments

That was exactly my thought :)

Gödel proved that God is


Offline Borek

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Re: Paradoxes in Chemistry
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2014, 12:55:56 PM »
People have proven π to equal 3.2.

This won't get anywhere, locked.
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