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Topic: 2,5-cyclohexadiene-1-carboxylic acid + CH3Cl (1:1)  (Read 5411 times)

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Offline ricecake

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2,5-cyclohexadiene-1-carboxylic acid + CH3Cl (1:1)
« on: December 30, 2014, 10:23:12 AM »
This is part of a chain reaction if I did all the other steps correctly.
Bezonitril + H3O+ (1:1)  :rarrow: A  + Na/Ethanol  :rarrow: B+ CH3Cl (1:1)  :rarrow: C + (O)/H2O2  :rarrow: D

I got stuck at C
A is benzoic acid
B is 2,5-cyclohexadiene-1-carboxylic acid
C is no reaction? It should not be the case right since they still ask for D
Thank you so much for any guidance

Offline kriggy

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Re: 2,5-cyclohexadiene-1-carboxylic acid + CH3Cl (1:1)
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2014, 11:17:33 AM »
Could it be that there are missing conditions?
Maybe addition of dichlorcarbene on the double bond?
EDIT: wait how could someone make dichlorcarbene form methylchloride? :-[
Or maybe you made a mistake in 2nd step
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 12:38:37 PM by kriggy »

Offline Altered State

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Re: 2,5-cyclohexadiene-1-carboxylic acid + CH3Cl (1:1)
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2014, 11:28:07 AM »
Take a look at the first step:



Can you propose a mechanism based on the one for the Birch reduction?

If you can't, it is somewhere hidden in the Wikipedia page for Birch reduction

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201300259/abstract

Offline Altered State

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Re: 2,5-cyclohexadiene-1-carboxylic acid + CH3Cl (1:1)
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2014, 11:38:38 AM »
Could it be that there are missing conditions?

Probably ammonia is missing from Na/EtOH
I don't know if there are ammonia-free Birch reductions, but since the OP said that B would be a Birch product, I assume that they want them to apporach it that way.



Anyway, In my opinion B is not the diene that the OP stated, it is an an ionic compound that can be worked up with another equivalent of alcohol or make it react with an electrophile to give the alkylation product.

So what would be D in your opinion, ricecake?
What do you mean by (O)/H2O2? I guess (O) should be O3?

Offline ricecake

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Re: 2,5-cyclohexadiene-1-carboxylic acid + CH3Cl (1:1)
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2014, 12:39:37 PM »
Take a look at the first step:



Can you propose a mechanism based on the one for the Birch reduction?

If you can't, it is somewhere hidden in the Wikipedia page for Birch reduction

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201300259/abstract

I'm a bit confused. Do you mean my answer for B is correct?

Offline ricecake

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Re: 2,5-cyclohexadiene-1-carboxylic acid + CH3Cl (1:1)
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2014, 12:48:56 PM »
Could it be that there are missing conditions?

Probably ammonia is missing from Na/EtOH
I don't know if there are ammonia-free Birch reductions, but since the OP said that B would be a Birch product, I assume that they want them to apporach it that way.



Anyway, In my opinion B is not the diene that the OP stated, it is an an ionic compound that can be worked up with another equivalent of alcohol or make it react with an electrophile to give the alkylation product.

So what would be D in your opinion, ricecake?
What do you mean by (O)/H2O2? I guess (O) should be O3?
(O)/H2O2 was what my teacher wrote on the paper. I might need to clarify after I turn the assignment in.
So I was not sure since I'm stuck at C. But my best guess for C is 4-methyl-2,5-cyclohexadiene carboxylic acid 

D may be C1(C(=o)o)C=CC(c(=o)o)C=C1

Offline Altered State

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Re: 2,5-cyclohexadiene-1-carboxylic acid + CH3Cl (1:1)
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2014, 12:49:00 PM »
Take a look at the first step:



Can you propose a mechanism based on the one for the Birch reduction?

If you can't, it is somewhere hidden in the Wikipedia page for Birch reduction

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201300259/abstract

I'm a bit confused. Do you mean my answer for B is correct?

Sorry, I cut my message in two parts and it ended up being a bit confusing.
It is not. For the reaction with CH3Cl to take place, B has to be an intermediate of the Birch reduction, not the 2,5-diene that you proposed. This intermediate would have a negative charge on the carbon of the cycle which is bond to the carboxylic acid group.

This is the answer (the F pathway)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birch_reduction#/image/File:Birch-Benzoic_Mech.svg
D in this scheme should be B in your reaction

I didn't want to post it directly in case that you wanted to figure it out by yourself, but since I was not clear enough, there you go.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 12:59:41 PM by Altered State »

Offline Altered State

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Re: 2,5-cyclohexadiene-1-carboxylic acid + CH3Cl (1:1)
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2014, 12:58:14 PM »
(O)/H2O2 was what my teacher wrote on the paper. I might need to clarify after I turn the assignment in.

Well, (O) might just mean "oxidation", so H2O2 would give you the corresponding peroxiacid.
If it's O3/H2O2, the molecule would break apart through the double bonds and give you two separate molecules (malonic acid and a derivative of malonic acid)

Offline ricecake

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Re: 2,5-cyclohexadiene-1-carboxylic acid + CH3Cl (1:1)
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2014, 01:22:57 PM »
Thank you so much for your help. Sorry that's I was slow.
Since B is the intermediate, C would follow your diagram C1(C(=O)O)(C)C=CCC=C1
D would be  C1(C(=O)O)(C(=O)O)C=CCC=C1
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 01:39:38 PM by ricecake »

Offline Altered State

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Re: 2,5-cyclohexadiene-1-carboxylic acid + CH3Cl (1:1)
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2014, 01:51:02 PM »
Thank you so much for your help. Sorry that's I was slow.
Since B is the intermediate, C would follow your diagram C1(C(=O)O)(C)C=CCC=C1
D would be  C1(C(=O)O)(C(=O)O)C=CCC=C1

C is correct.
H2O2 won't oxidize that methyl group.
However, carboxylic acid can be further oxidized to form a peroxyacid with H2O2:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peroxy_acid

Offline ricecake

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Re: 2,5-cyclohexadiene-1-carboxylic acid + CH3Cl (1:1)
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2014, 02:05:16 PM »
Thank you so much! I should have read carefully the first time. You did mention peroxyacid in your previous comment. Thank you again!

Quote
H2O2 won't oxidize that methyl group.
However, carboxylic acid can be further oxidized to form a peroxyacid with H2O2:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peroxy_acid

On the same note, would I-CH2COOH + KOH/H3O+/t°  :rarrow: a peroxyacid I-CH-COOOH. Should I think again?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 02:48:15 PM by ricecake »

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