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Topic: About to finish undergrad, where do I go from here?  (Read 4130 times)

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Offline Cato

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About to finish undergrad, where do I go from here?
« on: October 24, 2015, 04:43:46 PM »
Yes, I know I should probably have already done this by now.  Yes, I know I should probably have at least figured out some of this stuff by now.  But what's done is done, and I'm just trying to pick up the pieces and put them together into a workable life for me.

I'm in my last year of undergraduate school for a ACS certified chemistry program with no emphasis at an unimportant school.  I have a 3.02 GPA, which isn't spectacular.  I just realized I have no idea what I want to do with my life.  At this point, I need to figure out where I'm going next, whether it's into industry, or into a masters or PhD program.  I always took it for granted that I would go to graduate school, an assumption that was supported by every professor I talked to telling me that a bachelor's in chemistry was worth about as much as the paper it was printed on.  The difficulty is, I don't know what I want out of graduate school.  I don't even know what field of chemistry to do my study in.  What I'd most like to do is teaching, but I'm aware that it's very likely I'll never get to do that, and even if I do, research is as much a part of the job as teaching.  What I've most enjoyed in chemistry thusfar is that it has problems, puzzles to solve, things that are fun to think about.  I have a good memory, and am good at understanding abstract concepts.  What I've least enjoyed has been the lab work.  I'm slower to complete the labs than my classmates, make more mistakes, and find lab work stressful because I'm a perfectionist, but I can't achieve perfection in the lab.  When I've been in lab groups, I was more useful in processing the data for reports than I was in the actual lab.  My biggest strengths are my memory and my ability to solve clearly defined problems.  My biggest weakness is that I become easily overwhelmed by situations in which I feel like I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing.

Which brings me to my questions:
1:  Based on my strengths and weaknesses, should I go to graduate school, or simply go straight into the workforce?
2:  Based on my strengths and weaknesses, what fields of graduate school or work am I most likely to succeed at and find enjoyable?
3:  What considerations should I make in selecting a graduate school?

Offline Corribus

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Re: About to finish undergrad, where do I go from here?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2015, 08:04:23 PM »
Let's break this down a bit.

I have a 3.02 GPA, which isn't spectacular.
It's good enough. Grades in actual chemistry classes matter more, and so do your GRE scores. Outside of the top tier graduate programs, you shouldn't have too much trouble.

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The difficulty is, I don't know what I want out of graduate school.
That is a problem, and I certainly do not recommend that ANYONE go for a PhD unless they know why they are doing it. Note that there are a lot of things PhD scientists can do that does not involve being a university professor, although in my experience schools and advisors are very little help in letting you know what those things are.

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I don't even know what field of chemistry to do my study in.
Well, that's another problem. If you have a wish to go into industry, I highly recommend organic synthesis or analytical. Anything else will severely limit your options there.

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What I'd most like to do is teaching, but I'm aware that it's very likely I'll never get to do that, and even if I do, research is as much a part of the job as teaching.
Well, it depends on what level you want to do your teaching and what sort of permanency you want from your job. The sad fact is that most of the big universities (and even the elite small colleges) put a higher value on research than good teachers. There are lecturer positions but these aren't often permanent and pay by the credit - not something that's easy to build a career on.

What about high school level teaching? A masters is sufficient to do that.

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What I've most enjoyed in chemistry thusfar is that it has problems, puzzles to solve, things that are fun to think about.  I have a good memory, and am good at understanding abstract concepts.  What I've least enjoyed has been the lab work.  I'm slower to complete the labs than my classmates, make more mistakes, and find lab work stressful because I'm a perfectionist, but I can't achieve perfection in the lab.  When I've been in lab groups, I was more useful in processing the data for reports than I was in the actual lab.  My biggest strengths are my memory and my ability to solve clearly defined problems.  My biggest weakness is that I become easily overwhelmed by situations in which I feel like I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing.
First, I would say that doing laboratory research is different in many respects than undergraduate laboratory classes. As part of your undergraduate curriculum have you done any independent research? This will give you a better idea of what to expect from graduate school than general chemistry or organic chemistry lab. Different people have different strengths in any lab - and an ability to solve problems is a good one to have. I think the important thing if you decide to go to graduate school is to find a research lab that caters to your strengths. Different labs have different environments - some of them will hold your hand; others won't. It's not all about picking a lab with a subject you're interested in. The worst thing you can do is end up in a lab where you value independence and your PI is a micromanager (and vice-versa: if you are the sort of person who likes a lot of oversight and would feel lost without someone checking your progress and giving you goals on a daily basis, having a PI who never sees you but expects you to come up with great ideas on your own would be murder.) A good PI will be good at selecting people to work in his or her lab that have the skill sets and personal attributes that are compatible with his or her style of mentorship, but don't expect it. It will be your responsibility to do your homework before you join a lab. It's probably the most important decision you'll make in graduate school, and making it wrong is the difference between an enjoyable (as much as it can be, anyway) 6 years and absolute hell - and, probably, the difference between success and failure.

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Which brings me to my questions:
1:  Based on my strengths and weaknesses, should I go to graduate school, or simply go straight into the workforce?
2:  Based on my strengths and weaknesses, what fields of graduate school or work am I most likely to succeed at and find enjoyable?
3:  What considerations should I make in selecting a graduate school?

Those are all personal questions. The first only you can answer and I wouldn't even dare to give you advice over the internet. The second, also highly personal, but see above. The third: location is important as is the strengths of the school (compared to your subject of interest). It's important that there are at least two faculty members doing research you find interesting, and you should talk to them (and people in their labs) before you accept at the school. Be honest about your personal strengths and weaknesses and your expectations of a mentor. They should give you an honest assessment of whether you would be a good match for their research environment. Finally, check what kinds of career advising the university does - and (by god, please) don't wait until your 6th year to talk to them. Do it in year 1.

I also recommend at least considering the possibility of taking business or other classes in the university if you can. Check with the department to see if this is allowed. Especially if you are not sure about a career in research, these can open up other opportunities down the road. I know of a few people in my PhD class that got jobs at consulting firms and similar because they had taken coursework outside of chemistry on the side.

Hope that helps.
What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?  - Richard P. Feynman

Offline jjwinkle

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Re: About to finish undergrad, where do I go from here?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2015, 02:23:22 AM »
I think you should try the workforce (preferably including an internship before you graduate). You should test that water.

The number of chemist jobs in the US is, sadly (because they are fun), declining ( http://chemjobber.blogspot.com/2012/04/bls-historical-estimates-of-job-growth.html ). A graduate degree in chemistry tends to bind a person more to this declining field (http://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/recentgrads/2010/html/RCG2010_DST32.html and http://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/recentgrads/2010/html/RCG2010_DST31.html). With just a bachelor's degree, you are more flexible to do other things. This doesn't necessarily mean having a lousy job, at least not for long.

From Alumni Contact Center at studentsreview.com,
jobs reported by the 37 people with a bachelor's degree in chemistry who completed the survey. The people may have been at any stage of their career.
   
physician or in medical school……………………………………………..    6   
analytical chemist…………………………………………………………..    2
'stability chemist'……………………………………………………………   1
research chemist (had gone to grad school)…………………………2
scientist (unspecified, had gone to grad school)………………… 1
lab technician……………………………………………………………….   1
project manager…………………………………………………………….    2
document coordinator………………………………………………………   1
engineer……………………………………………………………………..           1
patent attorney ……………………………………………………………...   1
business analyst……………………………………………………………..   1
‘actual analyst’ (probably business)………………………………………1
technical sales…………………………………………………………….   1
consultant…………………………………………………………………...   1
professor…………………………………………………………………….           1
teacher………………………………………………………………………           1
membership coordinator……………………………………………………   1
director of operations……………………………………………………….   1
chief marketing officer……………………………………………………..   1
chemical operator…………………………………………………………...   1
automotive supervisor………………………………………………………   1
personal care giver………………………………………………………….   1
graduate student in chemistry..…………………………………………….6
no job reported……………………………………………………………...   1

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What I've most enjoyed in chemistry thus far is that it has problems, puzzles to solve, things that are fun to think about.  I have a good memory, and am good at understanding abstract concepts. What I've most enjoyed in chemistry thus far is that it has problems, puzzles to solve, things that are fun to think about.  I have a good memory, and am good at understanding abstract concepts.

Your orientations and talents are useful in a lot of areas of work.

If you have opportunities to take economics, business, computer courses before (or after) graduating, I recommend taking them.

You could possibly get a job as a data scientist with just your BS in chemistry (e.g https://www.nsa.gov/psp/applyonline/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_CE.GBL?Page=HRS_CE_JOB_DTL&Action=A&JobOpeningId=1064069&SiteId=1&PostingSeq=1).

If you'd like to go to graduate school, there are areas more useful to you than chemistry: business/financial management, statistics, data science. These should fit you, and they have good growth expectations (http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_102.htm).

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