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Topic: Alcohol condensation and Esterification  (Read 5027 times)

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Offline thesurgeon

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Alcohol condensation and Esterification
« on: February 29, 2016, 10:40:21 AM »

Well the first reaction is an alcohol condensation to an ether and the second is an esterification where the alcohol keeps the same configuration.. Why am I wrong?

Offline Hunter2

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Re: Alcohol condensation and Esterification
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2016, 11:59:40 AM »
Normaly you to get propene CH3-CH=CH2 what can add a second alcohol. I would say C will be main product.

The second willchange th stereochemistry. Probably you can have racemate.

Offline thesurgeon

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Re: Alcohol condensation and Esterification
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2016, 12:39:18 PM »
I didn't quite understand why the first one isn't an alcohol condensation... If you think the answer is C can you please tell me how is it possible to get it?

For the second question , the Oxygen of the alcohol attacks and no attack occurs on the chiral center , so why would we expect a racemic mixture?
Thanks.

Offline mjc123

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Re: Alcohol condensation and Esterification
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2016, 12:45:48 PM »
Look more closely at the stereochemistry of the alcohol. Don't be misled by how the bond is drawn.

Offline Hunter2

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Re: Alcohol condensation and Esterification
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2016, 12:48:15 PM »
Diisopropyl ether cannot synthesized in this way. Its possible to use 2-Brom-Propane and the Sodium isopropylate.

With Sulfuric acid mainly water is eliminated CH3-CH+-CH3 is unstable and loose von H+ of one of the Methyl-groups. This active  species can attack a second alcohol. I think the teacher gave also hint where to look.




Offline thesurgeon

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Re: Alcohol condensation and Esterification
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2016, 12:58:25 PM »
Thank you Hunter, I guess the section number was also misleading since it's the ether synthesis. Now I understand it's not a primary alcohol thus ether synthesis isn't favored. Thank you again, sir.

Mjc123, I tried my best to understand the stereochemistry of the alcohol but I didn't really understand how to proceed. I just know that the stereochemistry doesn't change in this reaction , however correct me if I'm wrong but if I choose answer C , it's the R configuration just like the one in the product? Thank you!

Offline Hunter2

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Re: Alcohol condensation and Esterification
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2016, 01:15:44 PM »
mjc123said it already. It is the way how it is drawn on the paper. I would choose the other one. With the Racemate I am wrong.

Offline kriggy

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Re: Alcohol condensation and Esterification
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2016, 01:48:09 PM »
Diisopropyl ether cannot synthesized in this way. Its possible to use 2-Brom-Propane and the Sodium isopropylate.

With Sulfuric acid mainly water is eliminated CH3-CH+-CH3 is unstable and loose von H+ of one of the Methyl-groups. This active  species can attack a second alcohol. I think the teacher gave also hint where to look.

Maybe I dont understand but I fail to see how CH3-CH=CH2 would form the product C. I agree with the elimination of water but I dont see how the other molecule of isopropanol could react at the methyl group with propene?
Is it thet the propene reacts with CH3-CH+-CH3 and then there is an addition of water?

Offline orgopete

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Re: Alcohol condensation and Esterification
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2016, 06:12:28 PM »
I can understand how C could be formed in problem 7, however I wouldn't ask this question. It is my opinion that if one wanted to form 4-methyl-2-pentanol from isopropyl alcohol, that most chemists would be unable to successfully carry out that reaction in the lab. I think it more likely they would get other products, such as propene or diisopropyl ether. If diisopropyl ether were not one of the choices, then I could predict C.

For problem 8, I'd say this is wrong. I agree with the poster, the S-alcolohol will give the S-ester. I don't see how R-configuration fits in here in any way. Am I missing something?
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Offline mjc123

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Re: Alcohol condensation and Esterification
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2016, 04:22:02 AM »
Is it the S-ester? Look at the orientation of the wedge. Where is the H?

Offline Dan

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Re: Alcohol condensation and Esterification
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2016, 05:48:15 AM »
Is it the S-ester? Look at the orientation of the wedge. Where is the H?

I think it's ambiguous. It's an unusual way to draw it. If it was meant this way, then I'd say it is an unnecessary and confusing trap for students.

As a little experiment, I put different variations of wedges and dashes into ChemDraw and asked it to name the compounds (see below).

As you can see from the automatically generated names, ChemDraw does pay attention to the direction of solid wedges (as mjc123 is suggesting), but not dashed wedges.
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Offline orgopete

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Re: Alcohol condensation and Esterification
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2016, 08:30:16 AM »
Kudos Dan for the 'real solution'. I didn't think of that possibility. This implies if the hydrogen were added to avoid ambiguity, it would have a second wedge to the carbon. I've never seen that drawn. I think this should be reported to ChemDraw.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Alcohol condensation and Esterification
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2016, 01:06:27 PM »
Kudos Dan for the 'real solution'.

It was mjc123, not me who spotted it.
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