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Topic: Clear synthetic gelatin alternative  (Read 5962 times)

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Offline dlssolution

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Clear synthetic gelatin alternative
« on: March 09, 2016, 12:05:55 AM »
Hello,

I'm an artist and I'm looking for help finding a suitable material for a project I'm working on, which involves a number of gelatinous sculptures that melt during the course of an month-long exhibition with controlled heating.

To do this I'm looking to make or find an existing substance that acts like gelatin in that it can be poured into a mold, but does not decompose, is 100% clear, can be remelted, and is non-toxic. An existing product by Clear Ballistics (clearballistics.com) seems close to what I need, but it is quite expensive because it's calibrated for forensic ballistics testing. For my use the density doesn't need to be so precise, and I'd like to be able to make large quantities at a low cost. Since I want to be able to melt this in a public setting (where children might be present) I want to know what all the ingredients are and that they aren't harmful when vaporized, but Clear Ballistics doesn't say what the ingredients are as a trade secret. Luckily I think what I'm looking for is pretty basic and hoping someone here can point me in the right direction for something I can cook up in my shop. I'm currently testing a mixture of Superclear 300 bloom gelatin with glycerin (instead of water), and 2% methyl cellulose to reduce water loss over time. It works quite well, but I would prefer to find an inorganic compound so that it can travel internationally without any problems.

Any thoughts?

Offline Borek

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Re: Clear synthetic gelatin alternative
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2016, 02:56:52 AM »
Somehow I doubt in the existence of inorganic substances that will behave as you need. Best suited molecules must be large and capable of multiple intermolecular interactions, and that's typical characteristic of organic molecules, not of inorganic ones.
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Offline DrCMS

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Re: Clear synthetic gelatin alternative
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2016, 04:11:35 AM »
A material being organic or inorganic makes no difference to how easy it is to transport round the world.  For transport it only depends if it is hazardous or non-hazardous.  More specifically if it is hazardous for transport and has a UN number assigned to it.

Offline Enthalpy

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Re: Clear synthetic gelatin alternative
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2016, 12:42:50 PM »
The ease of transport seems to hint to "non-living origin" rather than "inorganic".

A nice category of melting substances are paraffins. Cheap, nontoxic if pure, similar to wax. The molecule's size (and branching...) determines the melting temperature, which can be a clear transition from solid to liquid if one molecule kind composes the paraffin, or pass through progressive viscosity if the paraffin is a mix.

Nice to work with kitchen tools, brushes, files... Indefinitely modifiable. Pigments exist. Talcum makes paraffins harder, they can be milled and turned then. Cotton, paper are possible too.

As much flammable as wax: with a wick, or when molten and hot.

For months-long melting, you could try to control actively the heat by adjusting sunspots - or melt a bit at night when the visitors are away. You might also have different compositions in the sculpture so some parts melt more easily.

Some paraffin is available in German supermarkets to seal marmelade pots.

Offline dlssolution

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Re: Clear synthetic gelatin alternative
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2016, 03:40:41 AM »
Somehow I doubt in the existence of inorganic substances that will behave as you need. Best suited molecules must be large and capable of multiple intermolecular interactions, and that's typical characteristic of organic molecules, not of inorganic ones.

This material is inorganic and demonstrates the properties that I'm looking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKqwie2Umj4

It claims to be completely synthetic and that it will not mold or decompose under any circumstances, can be remelted infinitely with minimal change to the consistency. Guess I'm just curious if there's a simple way to make something similar and not pay the premium for their R&D to make this a calibrated simulation of human flesh. Thinking it might be some kind of silicone gel, but they don't say.

Offline dlssolution

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Re: Clear synthetic gelatin alternative
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2016, 03:46:11 AM »
A material being organic or inorganic makes no difference to how easy it is to transport round the world.  For transport it only depends if it is hazardous or non-hazardous.  More specifically if it is hazardous for transport and has a UN number assigned to it.

Thanks for the tip, I admit I have some research to do here. My main concern is that this substance having the potential to mold or decompose. I'm not having any problems in dry, sunny California, but I don't know if some kind of exotic mold in another place will enjoy it for lunch. Also I'll be transporting it into Argentina which is notorious for holding things up at customs, and if I can minimize it by not having what looks to be a bunch of petri dishes I would opt for the easy answer of "inorganic"

Take also the ban on beef products from Argentina into the USA--if I decided to produce this substance there I thought I might have some problem bringing it back into the country. Not sure, just a guess.

Offline dlssolution

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Re: Clear synthetic gelatin alternative
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2016, 03:53:37 AM »
The ease of transport seems to hint to "non-living origin" rather than "inorganic".

A nice category of melting substances are paraffins.

Good suggestion, but I'm not sure it will have the gooeyness I'm looking for. The idea is to have something that has the fleshiness of hard jello and melts in a slimy way more or less. After getting some responses on reddit my next direction is to look into silicone gels, not sure if you have any experience with those but I'm looking around for suppliers if you have any tips.

Cheers!

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Clear synthetic gelatin alternative
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2016, 06:41:25 AM »
I think gelatin is your best choice.  There are other biologically sourced gels, agar, carrageenan, or alginates, but they don't respond to heat exactly the same was as gelatin does, and they lack some of the mechanical strength you need.  But you can get samples at a health food store and see if they behave the way you'd like.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline Borek

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Re: Clear synthetic gelatin alternative
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2016, 09:45:41 AM »
This material is inorganic

Probably depends on the definition of "organic" and "inorganic". I would not call silicone gel inorganic, but I would not classify it as organic either.

It is kind of a cyborg, neither robot nor human ;)
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