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Topic: Cleaned tobaco  (Read 20451 times)

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GaryJJ

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Cleaned tobaco
« on: August 16, 2004, 02:21:25 PM »
Hey! :D
Im interested, if its possible to clean a cigarette from cancerogenes? What would be the effect if smoke?

If not, then is it possible to extract the main tobaco alcoloid which is not a cancerogene, and smoke? What would be the effect?

2. Is it possible to put that alcoloid in errrr bubble gum?

Thanks

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2004, 03:36:08 PM »
You couldn't just "clean" the tobacco because a lot of the carcinogens are produced in the actual combustion (or rather, incomplete combustion) of the other organic materials.  Essentially, even if you take out the carcinogens, as soon as you ignite them, you make more, different carcinogens.

The supposed "addictive" ingredient in tobacco is nicotine, a carcinogenic alkaloid.  It's the ingredient that is in those gums that are supposed to help you stop smoking.

Limpet Chicken

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2004, 07:14:01 PM »
I strongly advise you NOT to extract tobacco, or mess around with nicotine, its HIGHLY toxic, and absorbed through the skin as a contact poison. If you spill it on you, you WILL die.

I really suggest not having anything to do with tobacco, thats hypocritical, because I am both a tobbacco and a weed smoker, but its a nasty poisonous plant, to give you an idea of the toxicity, I once was made seriously ill by trying to quit smoking, and using nicotine replacement merely from using a few too many nicotine gum-sticks.

I recall reading somewhere of a lethal dose of nicotine of something like 60mg,
baring in mind, white phosphorus has a lethal dose of between 50-100mg,  so nicotine is something best treated like you had an unstable hand greanade in your hand instead of a cigarette ;D

GaryJJ

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2004, 08:10:12 AM »
You couldn't just "clean" the tobacco because a lot of the carcinogens are produced in the actual combustion (or rather, incomplete combustion) of the other organic materials.  Essentially, even if you take out the carcinogens, as soon as you ignite them, you make more, different carcinogens.

So you say, if I take out all the carcinogenes, the cigarette will stil have carcinogenes innit, but in non-carcinogene form?

Well, lets say we've got 'cleand' cigarette, Can we take out the chemicals that would turn into carcinogenes or maybe components that will turn the cigarette into cancirogenes? Would the cigarette still effect?

Quote
The supposed "addictive" ingredient in tobacco is nicotine, a carcinogenic alkaloid.  It's the ingredient that is in those gums that are supposed to help you stop smoking.

nicotine is a carcinogene, is it the only alkoloid that gives us pleasure? If not then, give me the list of some non-carcinogenic alkoloids in tobaco?



I heared that weed can be cleaned from carcinogenes, is it true?

When I smoke, it causes depression, when I smoke after bottle, 2 bottles of beer it gives me pleasure, why?

Thanks for the answers

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2004, 12:42:57 PM »
Molecules like benzo[a]pyrene are produced in any combustion of organic material in the real world (not under meticulously controlled conditions).  It occurs because combustion of the organic material is incomplete.  Since cigarettes burn slowly, with only small exposure to oxygen, you are ensured that there will be incomplete combustion of the organic material.  If you took out all the things that could form a carcinogen when combusted, you'd have nothing left to smoke.

Benzo[a]pyrene is a potent carcinogen, so you're pretyt much screwed with any kind of smoking.  A non-filtered cigarette contains 47 nanograms of benzo[a]pyrene, while a filtered cigarette will deliver about 20 nanograms.  That's a start, but that's still a bunch of carcinogen.  The real problem with cigarettes is that when you smoke you are delivering a very concentrated amount of carcinogens to your body, and it's not just one particular carcinogen, but a whole host of different carcinogens.

Smoking marijuana would not avoid any of the carcinogens from combustion.  The idea that marijuana smoke is less toxic than cigarette smoke is unfounded (with the exception of nicotine content).

I don't know if there are other chemicals in cigarettes that give "pleasure" to the smoker, but nicotine is the one that is always singled out.  Nicotine was once used as a pesticide (that's why the plant makes it too), can you name any other pesticide you would knowingly put into your body?

The data on benzo[a]pyrene is from Science, 178, 1197 (1972).
« Last Edit: August 17, 2004, 12:48:47 PM by movies »

GaryJJ

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2004, 01:23:52 PM »
In other words, anything that smokes causes cancer, right? I mean, if you sit next to fire, it still causes cancer, right?



I was talking about hash-oil. It is still mary jane, but you don't smoke it, you breathe hot vapor. Does it causes cancer, coz like they say it is cleaned from cancerogenes?

Limpet Chicken

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2004, 03:40:24 PM »
Well, it depends really, on how clean the oil itself is, it can be anything from about 20% tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) to upwards of 90%

This isnt really the place to discuss drugs, and that sort of thread can easily get locked, but this I think is quite a legitimate question. Obvously, hash oil (or any other oil) with more vegetable matter and lower THC content will make some sort of a difference in how much biological stuff/other chemicals present, although I am not really sure as to how much practically.

Whereas fully isomerised THC, or even THC-V for the insane person that has been isolated and purified to 100% in a lab is going to need far less material to be ingested in the first place (I.E about a few micrograms for THC-V).

I now refer you to the hive, and rhodium's site: www.the-hive.ws and www.rhodium.ws respectively as they have all a bee could ever dream about in the matter of psychoactive chemistry and synthesis.

Have fun over at the hive.
Lestat.

GaryJJ

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2004, 09:56:06 AM »
That's what I'm talkin bout. If I clean tobaco from carcinogenes, then make an oil. Then breathe hot vapor, is it safe? Would it still efect?

Limpet Chicken

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2004, 11:13:39 AM »
It would probably kill you in a minute or two, nicotine is an EXTREMELY toxic alkaloid, and a fast contact poison to boot, spill an oil like that on yourself and your a gonner.

I have seen a lethal dosage of sarin nerve agent listed as 1700mg, and a lethal dosage of nicotine sulfate listed as 60mg.

That makes nicotine, if those figures are accurate, quite a large amount more toxic than tabun or sarin, and about 30 mg less is needed to kill than the agent soman (LD 100mg)

Let that give you an idea how dangerous nicotine is, I cannot say strongly enough not to have anything to do with anything more concentrated than a good cigar ;D

Ingest or touch any oil of tobbaco or similar things, and you will no longer be among the living.

GaryJJ

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2004, 12:15:22 PM »
If I take nicotine out, would it still be a good stuff to smoke?

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2004, 02:05:54 PM »
As limpet has stated numerous times, nicotine itself is INCREDIBLY violently toxic.  If you take a pack of cigarettes and boil all the tobacco in it for a while, the black, resinous tar that is left in the flask is deadly enough to end the life of anybody who accidentally ingests a tiny bit of it.  When you smoke a cigarette for the first time, you get an incredible head rush and feel nauseus and light-headed.  This is due to the poisoning.  If you build up a tolerance by ingesting the nicotine frequently, that head rush and nausea goes away as your body gets used to the poison.  However, if you stop it makes your body feel a bit "wrong" and that is why you get headaches and cravings and become quite irritable.  If you were to take the nicotine out, it would be the same thing as going outside, grabbing some dried leaves from a tree, then lighting them on fire and inhaling the smoke.  You would not enjoy it and the incomplete combustion of the organic matter would create numerous more carcinogens.  (Your question is kind of like asking how to make inhaling hydrogen cyanide not kill you.  It just can't be done).
« Last Edit: August 18, 2004, 10:06:29 PM by jdurg »
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Limpet Chicken

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2004, 06:18:44 PM »
LOL Jdurg, the first time I had a cigarette, I remember, I was 9, and I had stolen a whole pack of 20 from my mom, went off behind a back alley to smoke them using KMnO4+glycerine to light them as I couldnt then buy matches ;D

I finished the packet, and just crashed, right then and there in the alley, dizzy as f*ck and wondering WTF happened:P

Since then, I got a liking for cuban cigars at £11 each when I can afford them (rarely), and the resinous exudate from damaged reproductive tissue of certain members of the papaveracea genus ;D

I'm somking my favourite pipe as I type this actually:D
« Last Edit: August 18, 2004, 08:20:30 PM by Limpet Chicken »

GaryJJ

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2004, 06:51:41 AM »
OK. last question on tobaco. If I take all carcinogenes (including nicotine) out. Would it still smell like tobaco?

Does tobaco has non-carcinogenic alkaloids?

What the hell is THC-V??

Thanks for the answers

Limpet Chicken

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2004, 01:53:36 PM »
In theory, the small would be caused by an aromatic oil of some sort no doubt, but the only way practically to extract all the crap would be with solvent extractions so its not really possible to clean it, and then you would be left with plain old leaves LOL

Polonium is present to some small extent in tobacco BTW, I wonder what you would to with the concentrated poisonous gunk left behind by extraction. I suppose if it was an extremely large scale extraction, on the ton scale, polonium might be able to be isolated in the lab;D

THC-V is an extremely potent synthetic derivative of THC, with different alkyl side chains from ordinary THC, there are several different synthetic forms.
THC-V has an effective dose measured in micrograms, it has a similar potency to LSD
and is active at a single dose for up to 48 hours, see www.rhodium.ws for the synthesis of this wonderful compound;D

Offline jdurg

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Re:Cleaned tobaco
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2004, 05:29:36 PM »
Ummm.. Polonium is a radioactive element with a half life of about 138 days.  It is present in vanishingly small quantities in tobacco, but by the time the tobacco is cut, dried, processed, packaged, and consumed, it has all gone bye-bye.  The arsenic, mercury, thallium, and other toxic heavy metals in tobacco, however, don't go away.   ;D
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