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Offline rolnor

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IUPAC?
« on: February 19, 2017, 03:11:18 PM »
I have problem naming a new reaction I have discovered, have any of you experience with contacting IUPAC and ask questions? I have found an adress on the webb, is there any particular person I can adress?
Thanx!

Offline pgk

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 11:37:07 AM »
By officially contacting with IUPAC, you immediately reveal your invention in public and make it well known. Thus, the corresponding scientific publication and the corresponding patent application risk being rejected.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 12:21:52 PM by pgk »

Offline AWK

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 01:18:33 PM »
A real discoverer of reaction publish it in scienific journal - this gives him/her priority.
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Offline pgk

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2017, 01:37:43 PM »
Patents and IP rights are only granted to new inventions and according to the Patent laws, worldwide:
“An invention is considered ‘new’  if  it  falls  outside of the existing state of the art.
The definition of ‘new’ and ‘state of the art’ are  absolute  in  character,  in  other  words, the  state  of  the  art  includes  everything  which  is  known  anywhere  in  the world  from  written  or  oral  description  or in  any  other  manner  by  any  person  before  the  filing date of the patent application (or the priority date claimed by the applicant).”
All above mean that a chemical invention that is claimed in a patent application, is immediately rejected, if being preliminary described (published) in a scientific journal or preliminary, being orally announced during a scientific conference.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 03:09:12 PM by pgk »

Offline rolnor

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2017, 03:34:49 PM »
Thanks, I dont plan to patent my invention but it would be realy bad if I can not publish it. I am planning to contact a university and suggest somekind of collaboration and it is in there interest to keep it confidential if they would be co-authors and perhaps they could contribute in naming he reaction. If you had a completely new reaction mechanism wich differs a lot from what is known, how would you do?

Offline AWK

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2017, 04:03:13 PM »
Are you sure that this is completely different mechanism? All are rather known and there are a quite limited number of such mechanisms. This rather may be a few consecutive reactions.
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Offline rolnor

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2017, 07:24:17 PM »
Yes, it is new, I was very surpriced when i discovered it. Thats why I want the naming to be correct and it is not very easy to get it right. Offcourse its a type of elimination reaction but it is different from Ei or E1cb. It could actually be a textbook-changer to some extenct, very exiting.

Offline hypervalent_iodine

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2017, 08:28:50 PM »
Out of curiosity, how do you know that it's new? As in, what sort of equipment / experiments have you done to justify your proposed mechanism? The naming is a minor aspect. If you plan to collaborate, it's something that can get worked out then.

Offline rolnor

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2017, 07:53:30 AM »
Difficult to answer without revailing the invention, I have run standard chemistry and separate on silica and run NMR and LC-MS. I have tried different substituents and depending on electron-withdrawing or electron-donating properties the reaction behaves as it should with the proposed mechanism.

Offline sjb

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2017, 09:38:25 AM »
Have you carried out labelling or kinetic experiments? Can any proposed intermediates be prepared a different way?

What do you mean by naming the reaction; presumably something other than the Rolnor reaction (or equivalent)?

Offline rolnor

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2017, 10:11:25 AM »
No, not any labeling experiment, that would be the next step.
I mean for example the Cope-elimination is called Ei mechanism.
I am not sure what you mean with intermediates can be prepared in another way, the products of the reaction can be prepare by other chemistry, thats not the invention.
I am now trying to gather evidence about how the transitionstate looks like by using conformationally restricted startingmaterials.

Offline pgk

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2017, 12:30:18 PM »
What I should do, if I were in your place, are:
1). An exhaustive literature and prior art search, by using the ‘Chemical Abstracts’ databases for many decades back, in order to be sure whether it’s something new or not.
Do not trust other web databases because they are incomplete, especially before ‘80s.
2). Applying for a patent, valuable for my country only, and keep it secret for further 14 months after been granted (It is possible for most counties, except in the USA, where a provisional patent must be applied for).
A few claimed, simple and national IP for a couple of years, is not expensive and thus, any individual can afford it. Contrary, a 20 years World Patent costs more than a fortune.
You can compose the patent description by yourself. It’s not so difficult. Contrary, if you really want to protect your invention from illicit copies worldwide, then you need a skilled patent expert and a strong patent lawyer. But, you do not need them for the moment.
But attention, only methods, procedures and uses are patentable and not theories, mechanisms and nomenclature systems. But, you can include the reaction mechanism in the patent description.
Or/and,
3) Publishing it in a low impact factor journal and preferably, in an open access one, or even simply, posting it at the ‘researchgate’ website:
https://www.researchgate.net/
(And respecting the time-schedule of the patent examination, if preliminary having applied for it.)
4). Getting in contact with academics for a potential collaboration and further publishing, if preliminary having ensured any intellectual or/and any industrial rights, as above described.
5). All above have a (little) cost and a (possible) risk. Thus, it’s up to you, to decide.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 12:51:21 PM by pgk »

Offline rolnor

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2017, 01:28:44 PM »
Thanks, if I apply for a patent why should I keep it secret for 14 months?
Why should I chose a low impact or open acces journal?
I have the feeling this is good advise, very greatful.

Offline Dan

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2017, 02:03:54 PM »
Why should I chose a low impact or open acces journal?

Less strict criteria regarding analytical data sounds like it may be a requirement for you - NMR and LCMS only will not cut it in "higher" journals, but it probably wouldn't matter so much in a journal like Tetrahedron Letters (for example).
My research: Google Scholar and Researchgate

Offline AWK

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Re: IUPAC?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2017, 02:12:58 PM »
Quote
Thanks, if I apply for a patent why should I keep it secret for 14 months?
This is the grant procedure of Patent Office. Number on months may be different in different countries. Look at your country Patent Office.
AWK

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