April 28, 2024, 01:01:53 AM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Having trouble with Rate Laws  (Read 12208 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jennielynn_1980

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 167
  • Mole Snacks: +8/-4
  • Gender: Female
Having trouble with Rate Laws
« on: September 13, 2006, 10:43:58 AM »
I am having difficulty understand how to write a rate law and also what a rate constant represents.

My first question is:
What would be the effect of an increase in temperature on the rate constant of the forward reaction and the reverse reaction?

The second question is:
Does anyone know of an online tutorial or webpage about writing rate laws because I can't do it to save my life. 

Thanks.

Offline sdekivit

  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 403
  • Mole Snacks: +32/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • B.Sc Biomedical Sciences, Utrecht University
Re: Having trouble with Rate Laws
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2006, 12:14:48 PM »
do you know what happens with any reaction when the temperature increases ? and will the increase in temperature have more effect on an endothermic or exothermic reaction ?

when speaking of a forward and backward reaction, we speak of an equilibrium. So you have to determine what reaction is exothermic and what reaction is endothermic to decide what happens with the reactions involvend in an equilibrium.

Offline jennielynn_1980

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 167
  • Mole Snacks: +8/-4
  • Gender: Female
Re: Having trouble with Rate Laws
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2006, 12:49:17 PM »
when the temperature increases, the rate of reaction increases.  An increase in temperature has more of an effect on endothermic reactions because it will change the activation energy more for an endothermic reaction.  I am assuming a forward reaction is exothermic and the reverse in endothermic. 

I think I found the answer:
for the forward reaction the value of the rate constant would become smaller and the for the reverse reaction the value of the rate constant would become larger.

Is that correct?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2006, 01:00:24 PM by jennielynn_1980 »

Offline Donaldson Tan

  • Editor, New Asia Republic
  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3177
  • Mole Snacks: +261/-13
  • Gender: Male
    • New Asia Republic
Re: Having trouble with Rate Laws
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2006, 12:59:33 PM »
when the temperature increases, the rate of reaction increases. 

The rate constants for both backward and forward reactions increases with temperature.

An increase in temperature has more of an effect on endothermic reactions because it will change the activation energy more for an endothermic reaction.

You are indirectly rephrasing Le Chatelier's Principle on the effect of heat on chemical equilibrium.

The equilibrium constant is temperature-dependent constant. The ratio of the forward rate constant to the backward rate constant depends on the final temperature. In general, dKc/dT is positive increasing if the forward reaction is endothermic.
"Say you're in a [chemical] plant and there's a snake on the floor. What are you going to do? Call a consultant? Get a meeting together to talk about which color is the snake? Employees should do one thing: walk over there and you step on the friggin� snake." - Jean-Pierre Garnier, CEO of Glaxosmithkline, June 2006

Offline jennielynn_1980

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 167
  • Mole Snacks: +8/-4
  • Gender: Female
Re: Having trouble with Rate Laws
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2006, 01:01:37 PM »
Why does the rate constant increase for both?
Is the rate constant the same as the equilibrium constant?

Offline jennielynn_1980

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 167
  • Mole Snacks: +8/-4
  • Gender: Female
Re: Having trouble with Rate Laws
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2006, 02:23:18 PM »
Okay, I think I get it now.  The rate constant increases for both because the temperature would increase the reaction rate for both.

Do I have it now?

Offline sdekivit

  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 403
  • Mole Snacks: +32/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • B.Sc Biomedical Sciences, Utrecht University
Re: Having trouble with Rate Laws
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2006, 04:52:15 PM »
Assume the reaction A <--> B

with reaction rate s for the reaction A --> B: s = k1 * [A]
with reaction rate s for the reaction B --> A: s = k-1 *

Let A --> B be an endothermic reaction. Now because there is equilibrium the following is valid:

k1 * [A] =  k-1 * and thus /[A] = k1 / k-1 = Kev

Now we let T increase and we already know that the reaction rate constant k for an endothermic reaction increases moere then that of a exothermic reaction.

--> when k1 for the endothermic reaction increases more then k-1 of the exothermic reaction, k1 / k-1 rises and thus increasing the equilibrium constant Kev resulting in a shift in the equilibrium to the right side / forward direction (because /[A] has risen [A] is decreased and is increased).

( note that the rise in equilibrium constant is characterisic for a rise in temperature. )

Offline Donaldson Tan

  • Editor, New Asia Republic
  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3177
  • Mole Snacks: +261/-13
  • Gender: Male
    • New Asia Republic
Re: Having trouble with Rate Laws
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2006, 06:44:43 PM »
Do I have it now?

Yes. I also want to mention that component proportion does not vary linearly with reaction rate.
"Say you're in a [chemical] plant and there's a snake on the floor. What are you going to do? Call a consultant? Get a meeting together to talk about which color is the snake? Employees should do one thing: walk over there and you step on the friggin� snake." - Jean-Pierre Garnier, CEO of Glaxosmithkline, June 2006

Offline jennielynn_1980

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 167
  • Mole Snacks: +8/-4
  • Gender: Female
Re: Having trouble with Rate Laws
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2006, 08:11:35 PM »
Thanks to you both  :)

Offline jennielynn_1980

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 167
  • Mole Snacks: +8/-4
  • Gender: Female
Re: Having trouble with Rate Laws
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2006, 08:23:20 AM »
So I understand rate laws a little better now ;)  BUt I have another question regarding how to write a rate law.
The info I have is this from a simulated experiment:
if you double the concentration of iodide ions, the reaction time is cut in half
if you doublee the concentration of persulphate ions, the reaction time is cut in half

So, this means the reaction rate doubles right?  I think I am confused with regards to the rate of reaction doubling or tripling and so forth with the actual time.  Like does the rate of reaction increase if the amount of time it takes for the reaction to happen is less? 

So assume I think I know what I am doing the rate law would be:

rate = k [I-]2[S2O82-]2

Offline Donaldson Tan

  • Editor, New Asia Republic
  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3177
  • Mole Snacks: +261/-13
  • Gender: Male
    • New Asia Republic
Re: Having trouble with Rate Laws
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2006, 09:20:51 AM »
So assume I think I know what I am doing the rate law would be:

rate = k [I-]2[S2O82-]2

If you plugin test values into your equation, you would find that your equation predicts the reaction rate to quadraple if the concentration of either reactant is doubled. However, your reaction rate should only double if the concentration of either reactant doubles, so the reaction should be first order to either reactant.
"Say you're in a [chemical] plant and there's a snake on the floor. What are you going to do? Call a consultant? Get a meeting together to talk about which color is the snake? Employees should do one thing: walk over there and you step on the friggin� snake." - Jean-Pierre Garnier, CEO of Glaxosmithkline, June 2006

Offline jennielynn_1980

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 167
  • Mole Snacks: +8/-4
  • Gender: Female
Re: Having trouble with Rate Laws
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2006, 01:30:55 PM »
I don't understand what this means "your reaction should be first order to either reactant"

Does this mean that there should be no exponents?  I think you mean it should look like this:

rate = k[I- ][S2O82-]

Offline Donaldson Tan

  • Editor, New Asia Republic
  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3177
  • Mole Snacks: +261/-13
  • Gender: Male
    • New Asia Republic
Re: Having trouble with Rate Laws
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2006, 01:48:19 PM »
I think you mean it should look like this:

rate = k[I- ][S2O82-]

YES
"Say you're in a [chemical] plant and there's a snake on the floor. What are you going to do? Call a consultant? Get a meeting together to talk about which color is the snake? Employees should do one thing: walk over there and you step on the friggin� snake." - Jean-Pierre Garnier, CEO of Glaxosmithkline, June 2006

Offline jennielynn_1980

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 167
  • Mole Snacks: +8/-4
  • Gender: Female
Re: Having trouble with Rate Laws
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2006, 02:30:18 PM »
Thanks  :D

Sponsored Links