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Offline FeLiXe

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Defending Science..
« on: May 29, 2006, 02:06:07 PM »
I don't understand what all the fighting is about

it seems more like a strength test to me

I could perfectly believe in God creating the world 6000 years ago and making it look like it was created through evolution
then evolution would still be the appropriate scientific theory. God apparently did not choose to be proven by science

personally I don't think Gen 1, 2 are to be taken seriously though
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Offline Will

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Re: My blog about my experiences defending science
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2006, 02:52:36 PM »
I could perfectly believe in God creating the world 6000 years ago and making it look like it was created through evolution
then evolution would still be the appropriate scientific theory

Its not only evolution, but fossil fuels and 14C dating and other dating methods (amongst many other arguments) which make the world being 6000 years old very hard to believe.

I think these people are perfectly entitled to believe that the world was created 6000 years ago by God but I also believe that I am entitled to believe they're completely wrong, but I don't want to take sides too much because it is quite a sensitive issue for some people.

Offline FeLiXe

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Re: My blog about my experiences defending science
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2006, 04:20:37 PM »
what I am saying is that it would be no problem for God to create fossil fuels, tree fossils with only little amounts of 14C and so on. if He chose that science could not prove or disprove Him scientists won't be able to.

on the other hand I don't think religion should intervene with science. they are just two totally different things.
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Offline Dan

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Re: My blog about my experiences defending science
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2006, 04:59:46 PM »
I could perfectly believe in God creating the world 6000 years ago and making it look like it was created through evolution
then evolution would still be the appropriate scientific theory.

Timescale of evolution >> 6000 yrs!
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Offline constant thinker

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Re: My blog about my experiences defending science
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2006, 05:13:07 PM »
Sorry for this somewhat obscure reference, but has anyone read Angels and Demons by Dan Brown? The plot is somewhat an intertwining of science and religion. If anyone needs a summer book, you may like the one I mentioned.
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Offline FeLiXe

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Re: My blog about my experiences defending science
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2006, 09:38:08 AM »
Timescale of evolution >> 6000 yrs!

Let's say someone copied our world today and created a new world just like it. Then the people in the new world would think they had been around for a while because everything is the same as in our world. But in fact that world was just created. They people couldn't tell.

In fact we can't tell if our world was just created yesterday and made to look like it has been around for longer. To use Poppers words: The theory that the world was just created at any specific date cannot be falsified by any scientific meanst. Therefore it's not a scientific theory. So why do scientists bother argueing?

I am just thinking that the religious and scientific approaches to those questions are totally different and shouldn't be mixed up.
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Offline mike

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Re: My blog about my experiences defending science
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2006, 08:09:44 PM »
Quote
In fact we can't tell if our world was just created yesterday and made to look like it has been around for longer.

I have always loved this philosophy.

Could be like the Matrix..

I think I remember Douglas Adams saying something similar....
There is no science without fancy, and no art without facts.

Offline silkworm

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Re: My blog about my experiences defending science
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2006, 04:33:09 PM »
Since this is my introducing myself thread, I feel like I have a right to ask stupid questions here. Is there a way to set this forum to display new posts? I can't find it if there is one, could you please direct me to it?

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Offline silkworm

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Re: My blog about my experiences defending science
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2006, 06:40:24 PM »
Thank you Borek.

Offline Donaldson Tan

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Re: My blog about my experiences defending science
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2006, 06:44:58 PM »
Let's say someone copied our world today and created a new world just like it. Then the people in the new world would think they had been around for a while because everything is the same as in our world. But in fact that world was just created. They people couldn't tell.

You are assuming there is a Creator.

Religious-wise, people assume there is a Creator, and therefore explains their daily observation with reference to the Creator. Scientifically, the way to seek God is to infer if there is a pattern in our daily observations and natural phenomena, then conclude if there is a Creator.

ID is essentially Creatism repackaged because it fundementally assumes there is a Creator, then using the Creator to explain the experiment, and then conclude there must be a Creator. It is the the age-old cyclic arguments used by Christians to justify their beliefs.

I used to be a Christian. I gave up on it because it cannot reconcile with Science.
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Online Borek

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Re: My blog about my experiences defending science
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2006, 07:20:25 PM »
Let's say someone copied our world today and created a new world just like it. Then the people in the new world would think they had been around for a while because everything is the same as in our world. But in fact that world was just created. They people couldn't tell.

I believe there is a Pratchett book (Strata?) that starts with this idea - someone works in the planet bulding company (no, it is not Douglas Adams book ;) ) and he lies sediment layers with fossils (occasionally adding - just for fun - thing like Presley poster or something). No idea what is the title nor what the book is about, I have only scanned several pages in the bookstore several years ago.
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Offline Donaldson Tan

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Re: My blog about my experiences defending science
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2006, 07:49:11 PM »
I believe there is a Pratchett book (Strata?) that starts with this idea - someone works in the planet bulding company (no, it is not Douglas Adams book ;) ) and he lies sediment layers with fossils (occasionally adding - just for fun - thing like Presley poster or something). No idea what is the title nor what the book is about, I have only scanned several pages in the bookstore several years ago.

Has anyone catched the Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy? In the final part of the movie, after Earth was destroyed, it was recreated by a Planet-Building Company. And they get this guy (Billy Mack) to dress in white to act as the director of the company. LOL. The point to take note was these guys can rebuild a planet, but they don't have the means to reconstruct the universe from scratch. They can rebuild Earth and make it seem it is supposed to be of a particular age, but they cannot change that of the universe.
"Say you're in a [chemical] plant and there's a snake on the floor. What are you going to do? Call a consultant? Get a meeting together to talk about which color is the snake? Employees should do one thing: walk over there and you step on the friggin� snake." - Jean-Pierre Garnier, CEO of Glaxosmithkline, June 2006

Offline constant thinker

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Re: My blog about my experiences defending science
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2006, 08:29:16 PM »
I saw the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I kind of want to read the book. That would be a scary thing if mice had commisioned our planet. Maybe that's where the author got the idea for the book (which eventually got turned into a movie).  ;)
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Offline woelen

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Re: My blog about my experiences defending science
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2006, 01:35:25 PM »
Of course I believe in Big Bang:



Many years after the big bang, Darwin's party started. Let's see whether Darwin was right or not. I'm sure we will figure out in a few million years.
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