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Topic: What are the conditions needed for this reaction to happen?  (Read 5248 times)

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Offline Squonk

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So bare in mind that I'm only a sophomore in high school, but I am fascinated about chemistry. So If I make a basic mistake sorry hahaha

I was looking through what reactions I could make in my own house with the stuff that I have, so I found this one:
6Hg + 4KAl(SO4)2 + 12NaCl + 3O2 = 2K2SO4 + 6Na2SO4 + 2Al2O3 + 6HgCl2

I actually researched about the products and saw that the last one is a pretty toxic mercury salt, really
If you could recomment/not recomment me doing this reaction and help me on how I could do it I would be grateful :)

Thank you for your time

Offline Corribus

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Re: What are the conditions needed for this reaction to happen?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2018, 05:56:37 PM »
Mercury is not something to play around with if you don't know what you are doing. Period. If you are intending to get it from a thermometer,  please don't.
What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?  - Richard P. Feynman

Offline Squonk

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Re: What are the conditions needed for this reaction to happen?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2018, 07:24:56 PM »
I know my stuff, and I already did get mercury :)

I'm sure I'm safe and I would just appreciate any help though

I don't really know if I just put them together the reaction will happen, or if I have to heat it up or keep it at a high pressure

Offline hypervalent_iodine

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Re: What are the conditions needed for this reaction to happen?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 07:34:17 PM »
I know my stuff, and I already did get mercury :)

I'm sure I'm safe and I would just appreciate any help though

I don't really know if I just put them together the reaction will happen, or if I have to heat it up or keep it at a high pressure

If you don't know enough to 1.) not immediately know the mercury salt is likely very toxic and 2.) not know how to perform the reaction you are talking about, then you do not possess the ability to properly assess the risk you are undertaking. You have no way to be sure you are safe or not, which in itself means you are not. Moreover, in your very opening sentence you state that you are a high school student, and apologised for any potential basic mistakes. Put simply: do not do this.

It's great that you are curious about chemistry and want to get involved, but you should start by learning some fundamentals and sticking to simpler, less toxic experiments. There are plenty out there. I work in an organic lab myself, and we don't even use mercury thermometers anymore due to the risk mercury can impose.

Offline Squonk

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Re: What are the conditions needed for this reaction to happen?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2018, 07:40:16 PM »
If you work in a organic lab, you should know that elemental mercury isn't that toxic...
But yes, it's organic compounds are.
I am working with only a few grams of it actually. I would say about 8g

And yes, I have security materials, If something ever happens for me, it will be entierly my fault. If I want to be a proffessional in chemistry, I have to take the risks early and know better than most people

Offline Squonk

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Re: What are the conditions needed for this reaction to happen?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2018, 08:00:21 PM »
Meh, but I got that it isn't recommended for me to do this reaction
Thank you though :)

Offline hypervalent_iodine

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Re: What are the conditions needed for this reaction to happen?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2018, 08:43:57 PM »
If you work in a organic lab, you should know that elemental mercury isn't that toxic...
But yes, it's organic compounds are.
I am working with only a few grams of it actually. I would say about 8g

And yes, I have security materials, If something ever happens for me, it will be entierly my fault. If I want to be a proffessional in chemistry, I have to take the risks early and know better than most people

If you want to be a professional in chemistry, you might start by listening to the advice of people who already are.

Offline Corribus

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Re: What are the conditions needed for this reaction to happen?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2018, 10:25:26 PM »
If you work in a organic lab, you should know that elemental mercury isn't that toxic..
This is not true at all.
Anyway, bottom line is that what you propose is extremely hazardous and you aren't likely to find many here willing to help a high school student with no chemical training do this kind of chemistry. The liability alone precludes it.
What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?  - Richard P. Feynman

Offline Arkcon

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Re: What are the conditions needed for this reaction to happen?
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2018, 09:45:47 AM »
And yes, I have security materials, If something ever happens for me, it will be entierly my fault.

Environmental concerns are a thing, for professional labs and home users alike.  If you forcefully believe otherwise, then I'd like to clearly say, that you're wrong.  And its an argument lots of "basement chemists" feel its a civil right for them to make.

[ETA]

And feel its important, as a MOD:, for me to be clear on this point, not only for you, but other members, new and old.

Quote
If I want to be a proffessional in chemistry, I have to take the risks early

I question the validity of this statement.  I don't believe anyone responsible makes such statements, in classrooms, or in commercial laboratories.

Quote
and know better than most people

Now this part, in particular, I want to additionally call a non sequitur.  This is to say, a haphazard risk taken, doesn't transfer knowledge, or make your skin tougher, or alter human metabolism or make you cooler. 

This is probably an off the cuff comment by you, and you didn't mean it to be taken literally.  So I don't mean to jump on you.  But I do want people who visit our forum to know not to "hand wave" away general safely concepts, general lab safety rules, laws for labs and yes, chemistry safety laws even for our homes.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 08:35:53 AM by Arkcon »
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline kriggy

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Re: What are the conditions needed for this reaction to happen?
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2018, 03:18:29 PM »
I know my stuff, and I already did get mercury :)

I'm sure I'm safe and I would just appreciate any help though

I don't really know if I just put them together the reaction will happen, or if I have to heat it up or keep it at a high pressure

If you knew your stuff you wouldnt try to run this reaction. I worked with mercury once. About 50g used to make mercury isocyanate for pharaoh snake experiment. Just properly weighting the stuff was stupidly difficult given how dense it is. Spills are annoying to clean and I wouldnt even try to do without proper equipment (do you know how to clean a mercury spill btw?).

Also, you are never sure if you are safe, that is the reason why chemists wear coat, goggles and gloves as a standard safety equipment.

Also, if you realy want to be a chemist, you should learn that you NEVER take risks. There is a reason for that. I can give you some examples:

a) friend of mine recently worked alone in a lab and while doing common procedure that none would think about as dangerous (making NMR sample if anyone is interested) the friend did cut a tendon in finger. Luckily, got into hospital real fast and got immidiate surgery so the finger seems to be fine but might take about 6 more months to recover and there is a risk of life long damage.

b) colleague in lab got little hasty during workup of the reaction
https://www.reddit.com/r/chemistry/comments/6a7f57/lialh4_workup_gone_wrong/

So you should listen and learn from more experienced professionals that give you advice. You might not belive me but most ppl here who post on this board are realy good and experienced chemists.

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