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Topic: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?  (Read 5109 times)

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Offline Shikkei

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Been searching online for nitrate salts. Can't seem to find anywhere that sells them or how to make them. Found this place, so please and thanks peeps!

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2018, 12:43:54 AM »
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Offline Babcock_Hall

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Re: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2018, 10:00:34 AM »
What counter-ion are you looking for?  What is your application?

Offline rolnor

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Re: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2018, 05:20:49 PM »
In the 80ś I bought potassium nitrate, saltpeter, in the grosery store. I was playing with gunpowder. I dont know if itś available these days though.

Modify: Here in Sweden itś available in grosery stores.

Offline Borek

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Re: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2018, 05:54:25 PM »
Nitrates are way too often used in pyrotechnics/explosives to be freely available these days.
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Offline pcm81

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Re: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2018, 08:59:18 AM »
I bought sodium nitrate for my hot caustic oxide bath on Amazon.

Offline chenbeier

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Re: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2018, 11:33:38 AM »
I thought we dont discuss explosives here.

Offline wildfyr

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Re: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2018, 11:42:04 AM »
Nitrates have plenty of legitimate uses aside from explosives. OP has said nothing to indicate that is their intention.

By the standards of your dickish comment, organic chemists couldn't come in here and discuss the azides used in copper click.

Offline chenbeier

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Re: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2018, 11:59:38 AM »
Quote
OP has said nothing to indicate that is their intention.

That wasnt also my intention in the Thermit tread to talk about explosives.

Quote
In the 80ś I bought potassium nitrate, saltpeter, in the grosery store. I was playing with gunpowder.

What I only see here is, that some people uses the law how they like or need it.

Offline pcm81

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Re: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2018, 12:02:38 PM »
While the policy to not discuss explosives on this forum is very reasonable and makes total sense; what I have seen is that people do not actually understand what an explosive is, hence mods randomly lump discussions of exothermic reactions into the "forbidden" territory.

To clarify: thermite is NOT an explosive.

The accepted definition of an explosive is a compound such that the exothermic chemical reaction propagates through it at the speed of sound or faster. If the chemical is unstable and shock can cause it to react, like nitroglycerin then it would fall under explosives definition. Additionally "Low Explosives" is a subset of chemicals which undergo exothermic reaction slower than speed of sound, however they also release large quantities of gasses, hence creating a large pressure zone.

Gun powder, thermite and many other exothermic reaction, which are indeed exothermic enough to be dangerous, are NOT explosives. The reason for using speed of sound as the dividing criteria is that the shock wave will propagate at the speed of sound, hence dispersing unreacted chemical and reducing energy density in the original volume.

To be more precise the two reactions in question are deflagation and detonation. There is a clear cut definition of what makes something undergo a detonation reaction, while a deflagation reaction is much harder to classify as an explosive, because it must also produce large quantities of gas and happen "fast enough" to not be a "decomposition" reaction.Nitrate are often used in defladation mixtures, however there is a LOOOOOOONG way to go from having a nitrate salt and making it go boom.

In today's world, many "mean" things can be mixed up with a basic chemistry set and a trip to home depot or other hardware store. So, if the goal is to prevent people from being able to mix up nasty compounds, then we need to stop talking about chemistry altogether. We could have a list or "mean" chemicals like potassium cyanide, the synthesis   of which is not to be discussed, but then the reader can look up the synthesis of such chemicals elsewhere and ask about making precursors to them. Which means precursors would have to be added to the list and so on. Eventually we'd have to stop discussing chemistry altogether.

I think the things which should be forbidden under "explosives" clause are the following 2 items:
1. No discussions of synthesis of compounds which can detonate. These are the chemicals that have exothermic chemical reaction that propagates faster than speed of sound in the chemicals.
2. No discussions of means or methods about how to make a chemical that undergoes deflagation reaction to produce a pressure gradient larger than 100ATM.

I think this should make a much clearer distinction of what should and should not be discussed.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 01:10:08 PM by pcm81 »

Offline wildfyr

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Re: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2018, 12:36:56 PM »
We do our best to assess what uses a potentially dangerous chemical is being put to use, and go from there. If someone comes in and asks how to get the biggest fountain out of thionyl chloride and bicarbonate solution then the topic will be locked. If they ask about the best cosolvent for doing a chlorination with SOCl2, that fits right in here.

The goal is prevent people from hurting themselves. That requires judgment calls tailored to each event. If you don't trust or like our judgment, there is plenty of internet out there.

Explosive is not a formalism here, it's a standard for trying to avoid making us responsible for someone blowing their hand off.

Offline pcm81

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Re: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2018, 01:12:50 PM »
We do our best to assess what uses a potentially dangerous chemical is being put to use, and go from there. If someone comes in and asks how to get the biggest fountain out of thionyl chloride and bicarbonate solution then the topic will be locked. If they ask about the best cosolvent for doing a chlorination with SOCl2, that fits right in here.

The goal is prevent people from hurting themselves. That requires judgment calls tailored to each event. If you don't trust or like our judgment, there is plenty of internet out there.

Explosive is not a formalism here, it's a standard for trying to avoid making us responsible for someone blowing their hand off.

This totally makes sense and I agree with the intention. Just trying to suggest a more precise and formal definition of what is a "no-no". By the way, i added some detail to my last post by editing it before i saw your reply...

Offline Borek

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Re: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2018, 05:50:27 PM »
Several times I've been part of a task force trying to make a set of rules for a forum and it never ended with something fully satisfactory - there are always things that some people want to put differently, or to make them more precise, which makes rules grow and grow to the moment when they are so long nobody every reads them. This also means at some point people start to complain "but the rules don't clearly state we should not speak about X, so it is allowed". Being too precise becomes counterproductive.
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Offline pcm81

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Re: Anyone know where we could get Nitrate Salts or how to make them?
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2018, 09:23:33 AM »
Several times I've been part of a task force trying to make a set of rules for a forum and it never ended with something fully satisfactory - there are always things that some people want to put differently, or to make them more precise, which makes rules grow and grow to the moment when they are so long nobody every reads them. This also means at some point people start to complain "but the rules don't clearly state we should not speak about X, so it is allowed". Being too precise becomes counterproductive.

Sounds reasonable. But then the next time i post something about extremely exothermic reaction of adding potassium to water, don't hit me over the head with a frying pan.

OP, You can buy nitrate salts on Amazon and pretty much anything else your heart desires on ebay from china. Hopefully you know what you are doing. If not, survival of the fittest applies to mental fitness as well i guess...

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