July 15, 2024, 01:26:51 PM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: insulation thickness calculations  (Read 13858 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ahmed1

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-1
insulation thickness calculations
« on: January 08, 2013, 03:40:15 AM »
hi everyone, this is the first topic for me.
i have question regarding insulation thickness calculation for pipe going to flare and having a light HC gas flowing inside.
i used this equation Q=(2π*k*L*(T1-T2))/(ln(r2/r1))
where
Q, heat transfer
k, thermal conductivity
L lenght of pipe
T1, inlet temp
T2, outlet temp
r1, inner dia
r2 outer dia, must be found

k,T1,T2,r1,L are given but to find r2 i have to assume Q/L( heat loss per unit of length)
my question is how to assume of find the heat loss per unit of length

Offline curiouscat

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3006
  • Mole Snacks: +121/-35
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 04:03:12 AM »

T1, inlet temp
T2, outlet temp

Are you sure T1 / T2 are not internal and ambient temperatures? I am suspicious.

What the source of your Equation?

Offline ahmed1

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-1
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 04:22:57 AM »

Offline curiouscat

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3006
  • Mole Snacks: +121/-35
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 04:30:41 AM »
http://www.enggcyclopedia.com/2011/09/sample-problem-insulation-thickness-calculation-pipe/
this is the source
and yes T2 is the ambient temp

Is this a homework problem or a practical one?

Offline ahmed1

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-1
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 04:58:28 AM »
no,this is only an example of how to find the thickness but in my case i have real one and i explained it above.
my question is on what basis we can make assumption for Q/L in order to r2

Offline curiouscat

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3006
  • Mole Snacks: +121/-35
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 08:12:17 AM »
no,this is only an example of how to find the thickness but in my case i have real one and i explained it above.
my question is on what basis we can make assumption for Q/L in order to r2

I would suspect perhaps based on if a component condenses at a certain Temp. that's one critical limit. Do you have any condensables in your stream?

Offline ahmed1

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-1
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2013, 01:25:06 AM »
for my case, the fluid  is mainly is C1 and C2 in pipeline going to flare.
T1=308 K,   T2=323 K( in our country, summer),   r1=1.07 m,  k=.033
so in order to avoid the temp of the fluid to increase due to conduction with the ambient, i have to calculate the reqired thickness for the pipe. to do so, i have to find r2 from the equation, then (r2-r1)= thickness.
the problem now how to find Q/L ( heat loss per unit of length), hence the length of the pipe which must be insulated is 20 m but no need for that since we need to find out Q/L (i think)
we assume that the maximum allowable incease in T1 is 3°C (due to heat transfer) not more than this so T1 will reach to 311 K. so from that, how can i calculate or assume the heat loss to use it in the equation.

i tried to use Q=k*A*(dT/dx), conduction heat transfer. but that will not work since i need to have dx which is the thickness.

so how can i calculate of assume Q/L

Offline curiouscat

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3006
  • Mole Snacks: +121/-35
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2013, 02:07:02 AM »
Interesting problem. After a bit of calculations I get

[tex]
T=T_2-(T_2-T_1)\times exp \left (-\frac{\pi k}{\dot{m}C_p} \frac{r_1+r_2}{r_2-r_1} \times y \right)
[/tex]

Notation should be obvious. Ask if not. y is distance from pipe start.

Let's see your actual values to see if this makes any sense.

For you this ought to become:

[tex]
T_1+3=T_2-(T_2-T_1)\times exp \left (-\frac{\pi k}{\dot{m}C_p} \frac{r_1+r_2}{r_2-r_1} \times L \right)
[/tex]

Except r2 you know everything. Solve.

Caveat emptor!

Offline ahmed1

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-1
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2013, 03:08:10 AM »
from where you got this equation it seems strange. i noticed that the temperatures will cancel each other and we will end up with
3= exp[..]
is it right?

Offline curiouscat

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3006
  • Mole Snacks: +121/-35
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2013, 03:10:03 AM »
i noticed that the temperatures will cancel each other and we will end up with
3= exp[..]
is it right?

Not right. How will they cancel?


Quote
it seems strange.

What's strange?

Offline ahmed1

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-1
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2013, 03:17:30 AM »
you are right i just confused
sorry
i will try it
but is it right to use Cp (specific heat capacity)= 844 j/kg.K since i am using fiber glass as the insulator material?

Offline curiouscat

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3006
  • Mole Snacks: +121/-35
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2013, 03:21:39 AM »
but is it right to use Cp (specific heat capacity)= 844 j/kg.K since i am using fiber glass as the insulator material?

No. I should've clarified. Cp and m_dot for the gas.

Offline ahmed1

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-1
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2013, 03:51:40 AM »
from where you got this equation?

Offline curiouscat

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3006
  • Mole Snacks: +121/-35
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2013, 04:05:27 AM »
from where you got this equation?

A heat balance and some calculus.

Offline ahmed1

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-1
Re: insulation thickness calculations
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2013, 06:41:46 AM »
last question about this topic
could you show me how you derived this equation from the heat balance equation?
i would like to convence my section head.

Sponsored Links