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Topic: New Chemist wanting to learn  (Read 27383 times)

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Limpet Chicken

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Re:New Chemist wanting to learn
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2004, 09:33:41 PM »
Ether peroxides are nasty so I have heard, or at least when they are blowing up a bottle of ether in your face ;D  but I think making ether peroxides in safe conditions would be an interesting idea, I assume an acid catalysed H2O2 reaction would suffice?

I wonder how the VOD would change with the complexity of the alcohol the ether was derived from, and how halogen groups would chamge the VOD/stability?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2004, 09:35:27 PM by Limpet Chicken »

Offline Mitch

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Re:New Chemist wanting to learn
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2004, 10:02:24 PM »
Novices attempting to make explosives is a very bad decision. When I begin an explosives project at home(which has only been one) I do an exorbient amount of research on it, more than just what I find on the internet. A BS in Chemistry lets you be able to tap other resources for knowledge on these topics. I can't stress how much every factor is thought through. If you want to make explosives or fireworks wait until your in college and have AT LEAST freshman college chemistry under your belt. While in high school there are still many other much more safer chemical phonomena to investigate.

For those I can't sway away from these dangerous experiments I refer you to http://nobombs.net/brucel/explosiveintro.html .
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Limpet Chicken

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Re:New Chemist wanting to learn
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2004, 10:12:47 PM »
I wasn't actually interested in synthesizing ether peroxides, more just interested in the theory becind them, I have very little diethyl ether left, and that needs purifying somewhat when I get my distillation glassware ;D (and yes I know distilling ether is dangerous :))

I may actually try this one,  but make no more than a few hundred mg at a time until I have at least some idea of the properties of the peroxides (and in the case of diethyl ether peroxide I don't WANT to make more than 250 mg at a time ;D
« Last Edit: July 19, 2004, 10:15:16 PM by Limpet Chicken »

Offline jdurg

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Re:New Chemist wanting to learn
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2004, 10:17:48 PM »
I wasn't actually interested in synthesizing ether peroxides, more just interested in the theory becind them, I have very little diethyl ether left, and that needs purifying somewhat when I get my distillation glassware ;D (and yes I know distilling ether is dangerous :))

I may actually try this one,  but make no more than a few hundred mg at a time until I have at least some idea of the properties of the peroxides (and in the case of diethyl ether peroxide I don't WANT to make more than 250 mg at a time ;D

If you have only a little bit of ether left and it's "in need of purification," throw it away.  Do NOT, I repeat, do NOT attempt to purify it.  Even professionals won't purify diethyl ether that is "old."  They'll just decompose it and buy new stuff.  Old ether has a lot of dissolved peroxides in it, and the act of distillation would be like saying that you'll defuse a bomb by putting it in a smelting oven in order to open the case.  
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Limpet Chicken

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Re:New Chemist wanting to learn
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2004, 10:22:23 PM »
Hmmmm...might make interesting target practice for my air rifle then ;D
« Last Edit: July 19, 2004, 10:22:41 PM by Limpet Chicken »

Offline Mitch

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Re:New Chemist wanting to learn
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2004, 01:12:50 AM »
never distill ether  :nono2:
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Limpet Chicken

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Re:New Chemist wanting to learn
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2004, 01:15:45 AM »
Well if the ether is new it shouldn't be a problem, for instance you need bloody pure dry ether for grignards.

marker227

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Re:New Chemist wanting to learn
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2004, 04:15:08 PM »
I know.  its not bad.  I am going to use Tettaniumtetro Chloride instead any idea where to get it?

Offline jdurg

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Re:New Chemist wanting to learn
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2004, 10:36:25 PM »
Well if the ether is new it shouldn't be a problem, for instance you need bloody pure dry ether for grignards.

Even if the ether is new, as soon as it is exposed to oxygen it will start to form peroxides.  If you can distill it in an argon dry box, and it's brand spanking new, then maybe it would be a little less dangerous.  Still, you'd have to be loony to distill diethyl ether.   ;D
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Limpet Chicken

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Re:New Chemist wanting to learn
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2004, 05:13:19 PM »
Thats just the problem Jdurg, I am a loony ;D
Gives me the advantage of not worrying too much with my experiments after the safety precautions are in place tho :)

Offline hmx9123

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Re:New Chemist wanting to learn
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2004, 05:30:03 PM »
Don't be an idiot--I don't mean that offensively, just for your own safety.  Organic peroxides are incredibly powerful and unstable.  100mg can blow your fingertips off.  Not kidding.  It is easily enough for critical mass, which means it can detonate.  250mg is not very smart, honestly.  I wouldn't try making diethyl ether peroxide at all, personally.  I have made other peroxides before, although in very small quantities, with appropriate safety equipment.  You have to realize that I have the proper experience in handling these materials, so that's a far cry from screwing around with them in your backyard.  There's another thread on peroxides floating around on the forums somewhere; you should read it because there's some discussion on the peroxides themselves, etc.

As for your Vdet question, it's related to the density of the material.  If you can pack the material at a higher density, you can get a greater Vdet out of it.  That's just based on experimental observation and explains why explosives that are loosely heaped don't explode with as great a velocity of detonation as those that are packed densely.  (This is not the case for ammonium nitrate, but that is for different reasons).  Anyway, if the structure allows you to get a more dense crystal packing in the crystal structure, then a pure single crystal will have a higher Vdet.  Hope that answers your question.

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