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Topic: Halogen cyanides to generate in-situ fulminic acid?  (Read 10486 times)

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Limpet Chicken

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Halogen cyanides to generate in-situ fulminic acid?
« on: August 19, 2004, 09:21:48 PM »
Hmm, I just thought of an unusual way to prepare fulminic acid AKA cyanic.

Fulminic acid is both toxic and unstable, decomposing spontaneously at 0 degrees C,
the halogen cyanides decompose in aqueous solution to cyanic acid and presumably the free halogen, I am proposing an aqueous solution of a metal hydroxide to be treated with a halogen cyanide other than fluorine which would probably not decompose due to fluorine's nasty tendency to gain a vicious hold upon whichever element that bonds (read is assaulted by ;D)  to it.

How about treatment of an ice-cold NaOH solution with the halogen cyanide of choice, preferably ClCN as this would cause the formed Cl gas to exit stage left immediately from the reaction vessel, forming fulminic acid in situ thus forming sodium fulminate.

What is your opinion on this, people? is my idea likely to work?
I might try this on a very small scale, given the instability and sensitivity of fulminates, but I am not sure on the synthesis method for halide cyanides, any pointers?

(Just so you know, I have a good gas mask capable of filtering out both halogens and cyanide compounds ;D)

Demotivator

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Re:Halogen cyanides to generate in-situ fulminic acid?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2004, 12:55:57 PM »
The equations are
NaCN + Cl2 -> CNCl + NaCl fast and independent of PH (but ph should be basic to prevent NaCN forming toxic HCN)

CNCl + 2NaOH -> NaCNO + NaCl at ph 9 - 11 about 15 min.

So, CNCl and NaOH won't produce Cl2 gas. But you need Cl gas to produce CNCl. I suppose NaOH can be included in one step in the first equation.

Limpet Chicken

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Re:Halogen cyanides to generate in-situ fulminic acid?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2004, 03:47:16 PM »
Thanks, so, do you think they would form fulminic acid in situ on hydrolysis, or am I having a brainfart ;D

Demotivator

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Re:Halogen cyanides to generate in-situ fulminic acid?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2004, 04:25:50 PM »
If PH is adjusted to acidic to get fulminic acid, I Think it's unstable and would hydrolyze to ammonia and carbon dioxide.

Limpet Chicken

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Re:Halogen cyanides to generate in-situ fulminic acid?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2004, 07:35:55 PM »
Fulminic acid decomposes spontaneously at 0C, I was thinking make fulminates [...] deleted.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2004, 07:06:14 PM by hmx9123 »

Offline hmx9123

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Re:Halogen cyanides to generate in-situ fulminic acid?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2004, 07:06:49 PM »
There's really no reason to continue this thread talking about how to make fulminates.

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