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Topic: Got back from the shooting range.  (Read 30717 times)

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Offline Borek

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2006, 02:13:17 PM »
Is it snow behind you?

-25 deg C here, sh*^&*!!!! We are not accustomed to such temperatures.
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Offline jdurg

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2006, 02:23:10 PM »
Nah.  It's just gray concrete.  The photo was taken from a cell phone so color balance, contrast, etc. aren't the greatest.   :)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2006, 02:23:32 PM by jdurg »
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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2006, 02:57:29 PM »
    Well Jdurg, you are a VERY LUCKY guy.Why?Because you live in a country with laws like them about guns. In my country, you have to pass ''holy investigation'' for take permission and of course to fill some special criterions.(to prove that your life is in danger e.t.c.)I 'd love to have a gun(a 1910.45 ACP COLT)but this is very difficult and i have not purpose to buy one illegal. Of course i will not mention my dream for obtain a sniper rifle one day.(i also mean 100%leagal-outherwise i dont want it). I saw you in the picture and i am  ''jealous''.
    In USA i have hear that you can obtain permission even for M-4 or M-16.Is it true?
   

Offline jdurg

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2006, 04:08:25 PM »
Here in the US you're allowed guns for "personal protection" or "hunting".  I'm not sure about the M4 or M16 as I haven't really had the urge to research those so I can't give you a good answer there.  For guns, I think there are certain states where a .50 caliber round is legal but in most states the highest you're legally allowed to go is a .45.  Still, if you are good shooter a .38 is a high enough caliber to make an attacker "dead".  

In addition, the process of getting a permit/license and then purchasing a gun is a long, drawn out process.  You first have to take a gun safety and training course taught by a licensed instructor.  (Typically the instructor has to be a police officer, millitary officer, or an NRA licensed official).  After you have completed the course, you then go to your town's police department and ask for an application for a pistol permit.  You must fill out the form which pretty much asks you your life history and have the form signed by a notary public.  In addition, you MUST include a copy of your birth certificate to prove that you are a legal citizen of the United States.  In my town, at least, you also MUST submit three letters of "reccomendation" from three people who have known you for at least three years and are NOT members of your family.  Once you've submitted all that, as well as the standard fee, the information is submitted to the FBI and a COMPLETE background search is performed.  They will look back throughout your entire life and ensure that you do not have any felonys on your record, or any sexual offense or violent crime.  If they find one, they're likely to deny your request for a permit.  This process typicaly takes around 8 weeks.  If you are approved, you are issued a temporary pistol permit.  Within 60 days of receiving a permit you must go to the State Police Department and fill out an application for a permanent pistol permit.  This application requires you to be fingerprinted and have yet another background check performed.  If it comes out clean your photograph is taken and you are issued a permit which lasts for 5 years after which you must apply for a renewal.

When purchasing a firearm, yet ANOTHER background check goes on and you must wait a minimum number of days before you can actually take possession of it.  While it may seem like the gun laws are very lax, they are actually pretty damned strict.  You can't just go into a gun store and pick out your merchandise and take it home the same day.

After all the shooting I've done recently, I really think that I'm happiest with about a .357/.38 caliber load.  I really see no need for a higher powered load in a gun as the .357/.38 is plenty powerful.  I still plan on getting my Walther PPK SS .357/.38 pistol and a Ruger 7.5" .45 Magnum Load Revolver.
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Offline Borek

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2006, 04:32:53 PM »
the process of getting a permit/license and then purchasing a gun is a long, drawn out process.

Is it always the same regardless of state? I thought there are large differences in gun availability, especially between eastern and western states.
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Offline jdurg

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2006, 04:37:16 PM »
There are HUGE differences from state to state.  In addition, not all states will recognize the laws of another state, so if you're driving across state borders with a gun in your automobile you better be sure of the laws in BOTH states.  States like Montana and Texas have gun laws which are quite a bit different than in other states.  The only common trait amongst all the states is the waiting period you need to go through before bringing a gun home and the FBI background check that is done before a permit is issued.
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Offline constant thinker

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2006, 10:08:57 PM »
You can now legally purchase and M16 and guns like it. Some states, but not all band anything over .45. In New Hampshire as far as I'm aware of there is no limit. It used to be illegal to by assault rifles, but not illegal to own according to federal law. Now you can legally purchase one. Some states have really lax gun laws because guns are used very often. The farming states I'm talking about. North Eastern states (and California) tend to have stricter laws. Key word there is tend. It's one thing to own a gun and have a permit to own, but it's a whole other thing to have a permit to carry a gun in public (like walking down the street or in major public venues). Getting a permit to carry a gun in public is a lot harder than to just own one.
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Offline hmx9123

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2006, 01:50:42 AM »
Wow, there's a lot of bulls&$# flying around here.  Here we go:

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Here in the US you're allowed guns for "personal protection" or "hunting".

You don't need a reason.  You can buy a gun just because you want one, state laws permitting.  I own four.

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In USA i have hear that you can obtain permission even for M-4 or M-16.Is it true?

In something like 38 states, you can own a real machinegun such as an M-16.  You have to fill out a lot of paperwork and do a lot of crap, though.  Google "NFA Laws" if you want to read about it.

Many rifles that are semi-automatic versions of select fire or full-auto weapons are still allowed.  This includes guns like the AR-15.  I own one and have included a picture of myself shooting it (with my face censored out).

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For guns, I think there are certain states where a .50 caliber round is legal but in most states the highest you're legally allowed to go is a .45.

Incorrect.  The federal limit is .50 inches, although this is excepted in the .600 Nitro Express and sporting shotguns.  Larger are usually considered destructive devices under the NFA.  Next, only one state has outlawed .50 caliber weapons, and only one cartridge--the .50 BMG.  This round is incredibly powerful, heads and shoulders away from the next nearest neighbor.  This is meant to be fired in an anti-tank rifle.  Only California has made it illegal.  in 49 other states, you can buy a rifle that fires this round.

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Still, if you are good shooter a .38 is a high enough caliber to make an attacker "dead".

It is all about shot placement.  Any bullet will kill.  .22 LR is one of the most deadly cartriges out there because of its tendency to fragment on impact, richocet around inside the body and not to exit if it hits bone.

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The .22 is the smallest bullet

There are several smaller cartridges out there, some quite popular.  The .17 HMR comes to mind.  The .22 is probably the most common of all cartridges, though.

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In addition, the process of getting a permit/license and then purchasing a gun is a long, drawn out process.

This is completely state dependent.  I walked into a store and bought my guns with cash, walking out within 10 minutes.  That's Missouri.  California doesn't require near the background check that your state seems to, nor even one as good as Missouri, despite their ridiculous gun laws.

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You can now legally purchase and M16 and guns like it.

Always could.  The M16 is a machinegun and was never affected by the 'assault weapons ban'.  The assault weapons ban did nothing.  You could still buy an AR-15, just without a bayonet lug or flash suppressor on it--thus making the rifle more accurate, ironically.  

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It used to be illegal to by assault rifles, but not illegal to own according to federal law. Now you can legally purchase one.

This is some jumbled thinking about the assault weapons ban and is simply incorrect, not to mention meaningless.

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It's one thing to own a gun and have a permit to own, but it's a whole other thing to have a permit to carry a gun in public (like walking down the street or in major public venues)

This is also incorrect.  MOST states have what is called an 'open carry' policy--meaning if you legally own a gun, you can carry it as long as you're not threatening people with it and as long as it's not concealed.  Missouri is this way.  You can carry a gun anywhere you want non concealed except places like schools, stadiums, courthouses, etc.  California used to be this way until the Black Panthers marched on the capitol in the 1970s.  Now, you may be thinking of concealed weapons, which generally require one to obtain a permit first.  Only Alaska and Vermont do not require permits to carry a concealed weapon.

Jdurg--for your first gun, I'd recommend a Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum.  I say S&W because they generally have excellent resale values if you take care of them and they make a quality revolver.  Second, you can also shoot .38 special out of a .357 Mag revolver.  Any of the magnum cartridges are expensive--and the .38 is a lot cheaper.  Shooting can get real expensive real quick.  Also, if you shoot .38 special out of the .357, try to use lead bullets (i.e., not copper-jacketed) because jacketed rounds will erode the throat of the cylinder over time due to the slightly shorter cartridge length.  My dad owns an old .357 S&W--it's a blast to shoot.  My friend owns a Ruger security six, a .357 in stainless steel that's great as well.  It's a fantastic round.  One of our friends owns a walther PPK--actually from WWII--his dad brought it back from Germany.  He took it off a dead officer, and it still has the Waffenmarks on it.  I don't like it much--it's very small and doesn't fit my hands well, but it's a really neat gun.  Those came in .32 and .380--NOT .38 special.  .38 special is a revolver load.  The .32 and the .380 are much less hefty rounds than the .38 special.  The 9mm is also a rather lean round when it comes to power--its great advantage comes in the fact that it is usually loaded into a semi-automatic pistol; this allows for greater firepower (i.e., more round capacity and higher rate of fire).

The .44 Magnum is great, but is very expensive and you won't want to fire it all day--it will get too heavy very quickly and it will beat your hands.  I would not recommend it as a first gun.  If you want the real Dirty Harry gun, it is a Smith and Wesson Model 29--blued, not stainless.

Next, the Remington 7mm is one of the hottest loades on the market.  It's a real b$*%( to shoot.  I've shot a .300 Winchester Magnum, and it's not a lot of fun either.  I shot one 4 times without a recoil pad and broke capillaries in my shoulder.

As for my guns, in case you're wondering, I own an 8mm (7.91 x 57mm) Mauser K98 from WWII--still has the Waffenmarks on it.  It's fantastic.  I'll include a picture if I can.  I also own a Colt AR-15, a 10mm Glock and a replica of the 1873 Colt Model P (The Peacemaker) in .45 Long Colt.  The single action Colt is a fantastic gun to shoot.  I'll post a picture of these, too, if I can.

Lemme know how it goes.  Be happy to answer any questions you  may about firearms in general.  Happy shooting!
« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 02:41:45 AM by hmx9123 »

Offline hmx9123

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2006, 01:53:22 AM »
Here's my Mauser.

Offline hmx9123

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2006, 01:54:31 AM »
And my Glock and Colt .45.  If you can't tell which is which, you haven't done enough reading.

Offline Donaldson Tan

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2006, 02:15:36 AM »
There is not much difference in handling between the M16 and the AR15.

The only thing is the AR15 is more likely to jam under intense firing and that's why the AR15 has a little piston lodge on the side to help clear any jam.

I handled both rifles before. It is quite cool to set the rifle to automatic mode. The rapid firing is way cool than the subtle semi-automatic mode.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 03:11:27 AM by geodome »
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Offline hmx9123

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2006, 02:44:16 AM »
Geodome--
  I haven't heard that about the AR-15.  As for the forward assist, it has been on all M-16s and AR-15s since after the first model (which had problems with the bolt closing).  Several rifles have been called AR-15s, some even select fire, so I'm really talking about the new semi-auto model.  But you're quite right--the M-16 really shoots just the same, because it is basically the same gun.
  You are not allowed to own such (or any) guns in Singapore, right?

Offline jdurg

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2006, 09:55:50 AM »
I LOVE that Colt there HMX.  That's the exact look I was looking for in getting my revolver.  The Ruger I was looking at had the same blued look to it with the 7.5" barrel, hence my reason for wanting to get one.  I just like the older styled pistols/revolvers out there.

My comment earlier about .50 caliber rounds being illegal was in regards to hanguns.  Here in Connecticut at least, you CANNOT own a .50 caliber handgun.  The laws relating to handguns and other firearms are completely different, for some odd reason.  An example of this is that I could go right now into any gun store and purchase a shotgun or rifle and not have to have any background checks or procedures run against me.  I could take it out of the store with me, pick up some ammo and go to the shooting range.  For a hangun, you have to get the permits and go through the waiting period, etc. etc.
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Offline hmx9123

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2006, 05:27:21 PM »
If you're going to get a single action army revolver (like the Colt), get either a real Colt ($$, http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/revolvers.asp), or get a Cimarron (http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/), which is cheaper but still has the same action.  The Ruger Vaquero doesn't have the original action (cylinder turning is a pain in the ass), although it can hold a hotter charge.  The Colts are expensive, but the Cimarrons are around $400-500 new, depending on what you want.

Anyway, yeah, state to state varies a lot.  Out here in CA, you can have a .50 handgun, but not a .50 BMG rifle.  Weird.  I shot a .50 AE Desert Eagle and a .500 S&W Magnum last time I was out at the range.  Pretty scary to shoot, really.

If you want sort of an overview of state laws, check out the NRA's website:

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Default.aspx

I know they're biased, but their law reports are factual, considering they don't want anyone to get arrested with a gun.

Offline jdurg

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Re:Got back from the shooting range.
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2006, 08:28:48 PM »
Yeah, I can imagine the kickback on a .50 magnum load revolver would be a bit disconcerting.  The instructor in my training course told the story of some woman at a course he taught out west firing a .50 caliber magnum and having the gun fly out of her hand due to the kickback.  (This was a while back).
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